Permission to Heal Episode #75 - A Conversation with Lia Holmgren about Celebrating Your Authentic Sexuality

Permission to Heal Episode #75 - A Conversation with Lia Holmgren about Celebrating Your Authentic Sexuality

Lia Holmgren has been an intimacy and relationship coach for more than a decade, guiding her clients through modern challenges and exploring the many facets of sexual fantasy. Known for her empathetic nature and direct style, Lia empowers her clients to feel safe in celebrating their authentic sexuality.

Her New Book - Hookup Without Heartbreak - How to feel empowered after casual sex
Lia wrote this book because people were always drawn to tell her their secrets and issues about their relationships, and she provides them with non-judgmental, honest feedback. She wanted to help people, and especially those who were scared and ashamed to talk to someone about outside-of-the-box intimate issues.

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Transcript

Welcome to permission to heal. I am Marci Brockmann and I am really thrilled that you are here today. Thank you so much for tuning in every week and, and joining us on this healing journey. It's Really meaningful to me. Today I have a conversation with Lia Holmgren. She is an intimacy relationship coach. 

[00:00:20] She has been for more than a decade, and she guides her clients through the modern challenges and exploring the many facets of sexual fantasy known for her empathetic nature and direct style and humor. Leah empowers her clients to feel safe in celebrating their authentic sexuality. She holds a master's in negotiation and conflict resolution from Columbia university and a degree in bio psychology. She's a certified wellness coach, a life coach and a hypnotist she's been featured on a bazillion media outlets and has now just published a book called. Hook up without heartbreak, how to feel empowered after casual sex. 

[00:01:01] And she's very nonjudgmental, very open-minded about all sorts of things about hookup culture and, and sexual fetishes and alternate lifestyles and polyamorous relationships and you name it. And, and she wrote her book to. People, particularly women, but also men navigate casual sex in hookup culture and not get their hearts trampled about knowing their own desires and their expectations and learning how to, to, to handle all all of the potential minefields and emotionality of all of that. So, we had a very interesting conversation and if you know anybody who is single and in their twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, and beyond maybe it's you, this is applicable. You know there are lessons here that my own children and my students and former students could benefit from. 

[00:01:56] You know, I was single in my twenties, as most of us were and made certain decisions and single again in my forties, between my two marriages for, for 10 years. And there was a lot of what Lia talks about that I could have used then to help me navigate what my own expectations and desires were and how I was going about making those things happen. 

[00:02:21] So I think we could all use a little help ,in this category and she's pretty amazing. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. Thank you so very much for being here.

Welcome Lia. I'm so excited to have you here. How are you today? Hi, Marci. Good morning. I'm good. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. 

[00:00:07] I'm so thrilled. So you're in sunny, Miami, and I'm in rainy New York and that's okay. That's cool. I like it. We're on the same time zone at least. It's very cool. So today we're gonna talk about how to protect your heart in the modern hookup culture. Um, and you're gonna talk about your book and all things. 

[00:00:28] Uh, related to that. So, um, so why don't you introduce yourself? I mean, I could read your, I read your bio in the introduction, but you know, who is Lia? Like, how did you get to doing the things that you do? So my name is Lia Holmgren and, um, I'm an intimacy relationship coach and now an author. I wrote a book hooka without heartbreak, as you mentioned. 

[00:00:50] And I published a book in October last year, it's been a fun project, um, that I worked on in COVID . Yeah, because I realized that maybe after COVID people will be really horny and they will want to have a lot of sex after being in lockdowns for so long. So I wanted to write something for women and men to, to kind of know what to do in those situations, not how to get into hookup situation, but how to navigate out of. 

[00:01:14] And through them. Ah, oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I, I, I think that, you know, during lockdown, a lot of people, you know, on the surface, you'd say, you know, what else is there to do, but have sex, you know? we can't go anywhere. Yeah. We'll stay in our little home bubbles and. But then as I've been reading, there were so much stress going on that people weren't having sex. 

[00:01:40] Um, and then people who were single weren't really going out and dating, cuz it wasn't safe to go see strangers. So I would imagine there's a whole lot of tension release going on right now. yeah. Yeah. I would hope so. So you are from Slovakia originally. Yes, that's interesting, but I've been, I've been, I left soak in 2000, so it's been a long time, a long time. 

[00:02:04] I've been in Western Europe and then mainly Germany and Switzerland. And then I moved to the us about 15 years ago. Okay. So you did your education here on, in, in. In it's like in New York. Yes. Yeah. You went to Columbia. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. And then United States just kept your heart yeah, I found it really fun here, so I stayed. 

[00:02:27] nice. Nice. That's awesome. That's awesome. So what made you wanna be an intimacy in relationship? Coach, you know, I just, I just felt like since I was very young, I would say even my teenage time, people felt very comfortable to share things with me that often has. I was like, why are you telling me this right. 

[00:02:46] But people said, I don't know why, but I feel like I can open up to you because you're non non-judgmental. You can listen to people and you can give them objective. Yeah, and I just felt that that's something I should do. And I'm also sexually very open minded. I I'm king friendly. I love the lifestyle. I think it's all fine to have fantasies and Kings. 

[00:03:07] Sure. That's why I said I'm nonjudgmental, whatever you do as long you're con in consensual sexual relationship and act, it's all all. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Yeah. So I. I went public with, with that, which caused me a lot of harm in some ways, but also brought me a pleasure of like seeing that I can help people by me being honest. 

[00:03:29] And that's why I became intimacy coach specializing in Kings and polymers lifestyles. I help people to understand those topics and, um, I think it's important. These are not topics that I can openly discuss with a standard therapist. Right. Cause they won't be understood. And, um, the education is not as such in psychology and I have it all done. 

[00:03:49] I've studied psychology for four years and, uh, mediation afterwards and conflict resolution, which I'm applying in those conflicts, of course, within couples. And oftentimes they are track. Double conflicts where values are mixed into, into this conflict and, and differences in values and imaginations and expectations, and it creates a huge mess. 

[00:04:08] So I kind of love to use my education in the sexuality. That is so cool. Very interesting application of that. I wouldn't imagine the people who wrote the curriculum for the conflict resolution, um, were imagining it applied that way, but I can't how it absolutely makes sense. Yeah. I was very creative there. 

[00:04:28] It was interesting because from when I was graduating, my thesis was actually on a free sum wow. Relationship. That was like two women and a man. They were in this horrible intractable conflict and they were just. So harming themselves to the point of almost like suicide. Wow. And I find from this perspective, to me, it is an intractable conflict and it's very dangerous for them and I wanted to help them. 

[00:04:52] So I was working with this couple for over two years and I brought my thesis on that, but I was the only one from my like hundreds of people that were finishing this class. Not in one year, but over years that would actually take the knowledge and the science and use it in personal or psychological perspective because all of the people would use like conflict in the workplace or sure. 

[00:05:14] War or like policy, you know, you name it. Yeah, so we need to be creative sometimes because the principles are the same. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think if more people applied things in a, you know, off-label or out of the box sort of way, we might. We might solve more problems, you know? Yeah. We need to have an open mind, but sadly, most people do not. 

[00:05:37] No, and that's why, yeah, that's true. And I took, you know, I went public because I realized if people have Kings, they wanna talk to someone about it. A lot of people struggle with that, you know? Yeah. Even women, they struggle with even wanting to have sex with many men because they're ashamed. Mm-hmm they don't want to be judged. 

[00:05:56] So. Because I'm open about those things. Lot of times, people don't mind to reach out and talk to me about it because they want to feel understood and they want to feel like it's okay. Absolutely. It's absolutely okay to play and explore and be imaginative and try on all sorts of different, you know, hats and for us or whatever you want to. 

[00:06:15] For us, it is, but you know, sadly not for everyone. So anyways, anyway, anyway, that's cool. Yeah. I, I would really like to get into some of that discussion, um, because, uh, um, uh, what, what you said, you said polyamory. I don't mm-hmm understand the dynamics of that. If we can just jump right into that for half a second, because sure. 

[00:06:43] And, and it's probably I'm in my mid fifties, you know, I'm a very sort of like if you're, to me, if you're in a committed relationship with somebody you're in a committed relationship with them, but the, I don't. Understand the dynamics of a polyamorous relationship. Um, somebody close to me was in one, um, a year ago, and he was in a relationship with this man and things were going really well, but the, the man he was in the relationship with had left the door open saying that he liked the polyamory thing. 

[00:07:17] He was more bisexual than gay and wanted it left open. So. There was the potential to date, a girl on the side kind of thing. Mm-hmm mm-hmm and at first my friend was like, okay, fine. Like he really wanted to be in a relationship with this guy. So he was willing to agree to that. But then when it actually happened, he was jealous and I could tell he was jealous, but he wouldn't admit it to himself because he wanted to be able to, I think he didn't wanna admit it to himself because he wanted to be able to continue the main relationship with this man. 

[00:08:00] Um, and I look at it and maybe I'm wrong. But I look at it as sort of a way to escape being in a committed relationship and to maintain the power in the relationship. But, but maybe I'm looking at it from a totally skewed perspective. So I was hoping you could help. Yeah. I, I don't think it's about it. 

[00:08:22] It's just like, some people can love more than one person at the same time. And if you don't have the, the, the more than one person, then you just don't have the balance in life. You feel like you are stuck, you know, and, and, and it's okay, because there are, if you find the partner who's also polyamorous, it's fine. 

[00:08:39] Then you have a great relationship. It's just all about the rules. So we would have to sit there for 10 hours to talk about all the details of. Poly because one relationship is complex and then you add four people or three people in the mix, and then it's very complex, but it all depends. You know, some people structure it as, as importance levels. 

[00:08:54] Like they, you're my main number one. And then it's two and three. And you know, I have like a girlfriend or boyfriend for traveling, not me, but I'm saying some people. Sure, sure, sure. Or I have a husband. I, you have a boyfriend and you know, it depends on those things or you just treat them all equally in shorter time. 

[00:09:11] You know, there are also also possibilities. You know, it works for some people. And I don't see that glamorous couples would have worse marriages. They actually are happier to be honest with you oftentimes. And they say, oh, it doesn't work out well, marriages don't work out either. Look at the divorce rate we have. 

[00:09:29] So yeah, it's I don't, I wouldn't mean the more people who are involved, you have more of an opportunity to have your needs met. Yeah. And jealousy is present. It's fine. Like it's, it's actually interesting to be jealous and work on your jealousy. I think that. That's quite interesting to understand who you are, like, who we are, why we are jealous, where is it coming from? 

[00:09:50] And then you can start this huge process of self growth and, and healing because you find out that the jealousy is coming from X, Y, Z from my childhood. And that it's triggering other things in my life. So I hated being jealous when I was younger. And now when I'm jealous, I actually like it because I like to go deep and understand why I'm jealous and what is actually the threat. 

[00:10:11] And usually we are scared of something. That's why we are jealous. Sure, sure. You what, I'm scared, what is my insecurity? What can I work on? Like what can I do? How can I help myself to get better? You know? And at the end of the day, sure if the person leaves then okay. They leave and then what we put too much word on, like someone else. 

[00:10:32] Yeah. For our happiness. Like if the person found better relationship with someone else than me, mm-hmm and it's word for him or her to leave, then God bless him. Right. Have fun, you know, then we were not meant to be together. Exactly. Exactly. And you wouldn't want that person to stay? No people weren't happy. 

[00:10:51] That's not true because I want to be. Yeah. I wanna be with someone. We have the best relationship. We want to be together all the time. It's great. But if they find this ultimate happiness with someone else, then I would be sad, but I would be happy for them. And that's called unconditional love. Right. But that's, you know, we are like, oh, what if he leaves me? 

[00:11:10] Well, go. I don't care. Exactly. 7 billion people on the planet. I'm sure I won't be alone for too long. Right. you know what I mean? And I always, when I, when I had the breakup, I would be crying and I'm like, oh my God, this is horrible. I wanna die. This feels so uncomfortable. And then it always, I found better. 

[00:11:28] Right. I learned time. You feel your feelings and they pass. Yep. They pass. And then the sun comes out again and you meet someone else. Yeah. I suggest people don't be self destructive. Like just enjoy your life. Be happier alone. I mean, sure. It's different when you're older. I wouldn't lie about it. You know, women in fifties, sixties, you know, when you stay alone, you don't have as much as many possibilities like men in fifties still do. 

[00:11:55] Like I still see men in mid fifties in Miami, they're dating 20, 30 years younger women for women. It's not that easy. Let's be straight about it, but also for women in that age, do we really wanna go out on date every day? No, we majority hang out with girlfriends, go to a massage and read a book or like, you know, right. 

[00:12:12] Travel and take a trip or yeah, travel. Yeah. Go to museum. Like we don't have that, like, okay. I need to have a boy to, with me all the time. You know, the sex becomes less important in that age. Mm-hmm so people say, oh, she will. Day alone. I'm like, I know plenty women. They want to be alone in that age because okay. 

[00:12:28] Marriage didn't work out and now I can actually finally enjoy my life without trying to hunt a guy. Yeah. So it's all about perspective, you know? Absolutely. And I love to look at things in positive way, and that's why I wrote the book on hookups because I saw so much shame about women. They love casual sex, and I suffer with that. 

[00:12:45] My whole. Like, I've been always judged by people and especially women. Right. Because I loved sex and I wanted to have fun. Right? Yeah. There's a lot of slut shaming as they put it, I think is the word in, in, in, in the United States, I don't know about anywhere else in the world, but you know, there's a lot of. 

[00:13:07] Of, uh, judgment about it's it's everywhere. It's in Europe the same. Yeah. You know, like German, Germany, like people are open for swinging. They love swinger clubs. I used to own one there with a partner of mine, with a business partner. We used to have swinger club for couples, which I don't own anymore, but we, we used to. 

[00:13:28] They love going to those singer clubs, but the moment you see another woman who is not with a couple as a, as a man. Yeah. There's such huge amount of jealousy, so they're open minded, but they're not, you know, it's like all really strange. So Europe is also like that, you know, it's not only the us it's I think the whole world has this issue with sexuality. 

[00:13:48] Sexuality is very triggering and that's why I think that the book I wrote, you know, it's it's for women mostly, but also for. Couple of chapters for, and how to actually, you know, everyone wants to have block posts on how to get laid, how to hook up, what to wear, what to say. No, that I think we got this figured out. 

[00:14:06] We know how to do it. Right. But I wanted to focus more on how do we get out of it? If it doesn't go the way we want it. Right. Because I think that's what we struggle with. You know, everyone. Like all the publications get us into this moment when we are in a hookup, but nobody helps us to get out of it. 

[00:14:27] How do we actually clean the mess? That's psychologically in us or, you know, right. The shame and the fear, the anger, and, you know, I also wanna help women to not victim. Themselves afterwards, because a lot of women do that. And I think it's very detrimental to our wellbeing. What do you mean victimize? 

[00:14:47] Just like, lot of times women have sex and then they come home and they start dwelling on, on, on the experience, you know, like what's happening, but we feel like shit afterwards. Yeah. And like, like often times they would blame the guy. Like he got me to have sex with him or like he like pushed me or like all these things and like. 

[00:15:06] Years it's even worse. That is Al almost bothering on bordering on like sexual abuse. Right. And I'm, I'm seeing all of this and I'm like, oh my God, what's going on with this world? Like just have sex, come home and then move on and move on. Yeah. Enjoy like, like you had great time. I hope you did. right. And after another experience and is he gonna call me? 

[00:15:29] I don't care. Yeah. You know, I, I had a period of time in my twenties that I was single and dating and having sex. However I wanted to, and, and the same thing in my, in my forties, I was single for almost 10 years and nice dating, whoever I wanted to date. And it was a, a healing process for me. Like I went into dating. 

[00:15:51] Forties with the same mindset that I had in my twenties, which wasn't healthy or appropriate. And then I quickly realized, well, I mean, not so quickly, but eventually I realized that it wasn't important at all. Whether the guy I was dating liked me. What was important was that I liked myself in that situation. 

[00:16:16] Yeah. And that I could feel comfortable enough to be authentically Marcy and not try to put on. Uh, a personality or an, a affectation that would appeal to him. Cause I don't know him. Yeah. How do you predict what a stranger wants from a relationship or a hookup or anything? You just have to go in there a hundred percent yourself. 

[00:16:40] And if it gels and it vibes then great. And if it doesn't, you didn't lose anything. No. Cuz you didn't have anything to start with. I know. And then you read all these things like, oh, I gave him my, my, my pussy. I'm like you didn't. you guys had sex. Like this is like, not that, you know, you take your pus in a box, give it to him. 

[00:16:57] He uses it. You are there present. Right? I enjoy like, I want women to just enjoy this moment and stop overthinking. Yeah. And dwelling on things later on and just having a good time. I like it. Put his approach too. Just. Let go of things, let go of these negative thoughts and like overthinking. And as you said, like he comes back, we have like, but maybe I don't want him to come back either. 

[00:17:21] yeah. There were plenty of people who I met and had fun with and didn't really wanna see again. Yeah, exactly. So it's fine. Like happens from both sides. Yeah, maybe he was attractive, but dumb as a post. So, you know, yeah. Or bad in, like, it didn't work for me in, in the bedroom. So I'm like, why would I worry about it? 

[00:17:39] Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, I wanted to too, just, just help, help women to have fun and enjoy their life and not overthink. It's like pretty much simple. And for guys, I wanted to have to have the guys to understand why. Fact certain ways that might sound clingy clingy to them. Right. But it's actually not there clingy, but it's the hormones and all of that. 

[00:18:02] What happens in female mind? You know, and I understand some women are just not into casual sex and that's not what the book is for. Right. The book is for women, they actually want to have casual sex. They want to explore this possibility. Sure. Cause I had some judgemental women who would read my book. 

[00:18:16] Read my book and leave me a horrible review. Like, oh, this book is only for women. They want to have sex with so many guys and da, da, da. I'm like, well, that's what is in disclaimer at the very first page of the book, right? I mean, the title is hook up without heartbreak, not everlasting love without heartbreak. 

[00:18:32] Exactly. And the very first thing I say, this is for women, they are open-minded for potentially hooking up or are hooking. Not for women. They want to like, have like complete psychological transformation because that's not what 140 pages can do. That's like what healthier of sexuality coaching can do maybe. 

[00:18:51] Right. You know? So, so how is it different from men? Like what do you tell men to help them decode what women are saying or vice versa? You know, it's just more like, I want men to be a little bit more loving and understanding after they have sex with someone. I just don't want them to dump the woman in an, in an, in an ugly way without even talking to her or understanding. 

[00:19:15] Right. You know, and, and I did so much research for this because I wondered what other women want. Like for me, for example, I like to have a closure. So if I, if I had really like, for me, if I had bad time with a guy, he never calls me or the sex didn't go, well, we both knew it's not for us. And he never calls. 

[00:19:33] I'm okay with that because it's pretty self explanatory. Sure. What I don't understand and never could understand, even from my life is when you have like weeks and months of flirt with someone and clearly he's into you. And then finally you decide to have a rocking night and you'd have amazing time. 

[00:19:53] you, you have like orgasm after orgasm. He does like, it's extremely connecting. Right? And then he disappears. Yeah. What is that? exactly. Or he just says, okay, thanks. It was nice. It was like, was it all? And the conquest? I don't know. Yeah. And he doesn't want to like, repeat this. And that's what for me was not understanding even, even if I would make it very clear. 

[00:20:17] I am not into relationship and I wanna just have the same fun, but oftentimes the guys will just move on and I'm like, you don't want something that good. So I'm like, okay, they're lying. Is, is, is that good? Or like, what's going on with these guys? And why am I so attached to this person that I barely know? 

[00:20:36] Right. So I wanted them to be understanding because, you know, If they just like become suddenly really cold. And I know many times guys, they just come and they become colder. They don't want to cuddle. They don't wanna reach out. You know, you can just like be after someone for three months and then send a message like, oh, that was great. 

[00:20:54] Thank you so much. I will see you another time and that's it. Right. You know, it doesn't work for women. It's really difficult. And for guys it does because they move on, they Alize, they're off to spread their semen elsewhere. That's how the nature works. And now women work logical lives. Exactly. And what women are attached often times for period of couple weeks. 

[00:21:14] And I, I learned from like the, his. Theory. And, uh, you know, like when I was reading a lot of books on this and done my research for this book, I read over a hundred research studies. It's because we might be pregnant and it's still encoded in us. Although we have birth control, we are like, oh my God. And now maybe I'm pregnant and he's leaving. 

[00:21:33] You get this like anxiety in this. Here. Right? Because in the past you wouldn't be able to survive alone with a baby. Right. You know, you would die. Like you need a tribe, you need a man to protect back before agriculture makes. Yeah. So if the guy just disappears and he is really cold, you get this. 

[00:21:50] Subconscious anxiety of, oh my God. And it's passes after a couple of weeks, but it's very uncomfortable. So I think in that moment, when it passes, if the guy could be a little bit nicer and I personally like to I'm, I'm not saying he needs to see me again, but at least give a little bit of attention. Sure. 

[00:22:08] A focus call until this conversation or something. Yeah. Yeah. Instead just this ghosting thing, like, I don't understand that or just being really cold. Yeah. That's like really like, because we know that before you fucked me, you was, you was, he was really nice, attentive and interesting, very attentive. Like everything mattered. 

[00:22:29] and now suddenly it's like, boom, cold ice cold. And, and that is really annoying. So I wrote a little chapter for guys who said, if you don't wanna see her again, or you are not interested, like, like just be nice. And I personally like, when guys tell me, Hey, I don't wanna see you again because, and, and oftentimes we think it's personal, but oftentimes the guy says the sex was so good. 

[00:22:51] I know if I'm gonna see you two, three times. I will fall in love with you. Right. But I have to leave for work or I, I have a family, like, or I'm divorcing, or I'm not saying he must be married immediately, but I have son or kids I'm divorced. Like I don't wanna get into another something. Yeah. And I would love to know this. 

[00:23:10] Because then I say, oh, wow, that makes sense. And, and quite honestly, I would probably fall in love with you too, so, okay. Let's just be smart about this. Let's not do it, right? Yeah. You need to be hard with this. Some really, you know, on the line, honesty, I think is always, it may, it may feel uncomfortable in the moment to say that. 

[00:23:32] but ultimately it's the kindest thing that we can do. Yeah. You know, by, by, yeah. Yeah. I, I remember in my, in my twenties, I went on my stepmom, hooked me up, not hooked me up. That's what she says the wrong way. Set me up on a blind date with the son of one of her friends. And, um, she was really excited and thought we would really get along. 

[00:23:50] And it was just a daytime date. We were in Manhattan and we went to the MoMA and had lunch and looked at paintings. I mean, that was the whole thing. And it was like three excruciating hours. There wasn't a single thing about this man that I liked. I was not attracted to him. He was just compass and obnoxious. 

[00:24:08] And like, we did not no, no way. And so we made it through the whole date. We walked back to where our cars were and he was just doing the obligatory, you know, it was so nice to meet you. I hope we can do this again. And I looked at him. And I had this sort of out of body moment where I was like, yeah, no. 

[00:24:26] And, and I said, I, I hope you have a wonderful life, but don't call me again, lose my nose. Yeah, yeah. This didn't work for me. Yeah. But you're, you're, you're great for someone else. Yeah. That's and that's exactly beautiful to say, because like the energies don't need to, you know, like, and right, sure. I don't want a guy to tell me, Hey, I don't. 

[00:24:47] Your ass or like, no, don't say people, something, they will carry with them for rest of their lives and have a complex about it. They will feel bad about it. Like they will, I have plenty of that in my forties. Yeah. People, some really shitty things. Yeah. You did to guys or guys to you? No, to me, absolutely. 

[00:25:02] Oh, no, really? Yeah. Like, oh, so. Like after our first date. Oh, you're so great. I really loved a conversation. We really connected, but you know, you're too fat for me or your ass is too big or you're too curvy. I had one guy tell me that I, but it doesn't matter when they wanting to have sex with you. No, we didn't have sex. 

[00:25:22] We were just having conversation. And it, it's not gonna go anywhere because you're too fat for me. Oh God. That's horrible. There are easier ways to say that, that aren't so obnoxious. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I said in the book too. I said, guys, don't say this to people. Don't say, oh, I don't wanna see you because you have bad breath. 

[00:25:40] There are plenty of guys with bad breath. Right. But I wouldn't say it to them. I mean, unless. You know, I'm with him and I want him to fix it, of course. But, but, you know, just be, say, you know, I think we, we don't connect energetically, right. Or it's not for me right now. I'm I'm on different, you know, exactly. 

[00:25:59] There are ways the honesty, but I had girlfriends, they, they said I can't deal with. See, I don't wanna know. And they let, like, let want the guys to lie and tell them something else. No, and I don't think, I don't know. No, I don't wanna have to deal with the phone calls afterwards or a text message afterwards that perpetuates the falsehood. 

[00:26:18] No, just. I don't have time or energy for that. Just be done with it. Let's move on to something else. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, like often task guys don't wanna say, and I interviewed 50 guys for this book and they all said, you know, like most of them said there were like little amount of guys. I have the statistics in the book. 

[00:26:34] I don't remember exactly how many guys, but very little amount actually said I would be honest with her. So I don't waste her. But lot of guys said, I'm not gonna tell her that she's not for me because maybe one day I'm really horny. There is no one else to call. Oh, good. Yeah. So I'm keeping her for a booty call and I'm like, this is disgusting. 

[00:26:55] yeah. So string along, that's just in case a lonely night and I'm desperate. Yeah, I'm desperate. And I have no one else to have sex with. So I had that too. Yeah. And only one or two guys out of 50 said that would ghost her, actually, most guys wouldn't ghost. And the guys, they said they would ghost, they were in their twenties. 

[00:27:14] Yeah. Seems like guys in thirties, 40, 50, they just don't ghost people. Like that's like, I mean, really? Yeah. I think I, I didn't actually hear of ghosting as a term. Until, uh, my younger two children were in college and, and, and dating and so on. And that happened to both of them. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. I don't remember. 

[00:27:36] I'm sure it happened to me too. I mean, the process of it happens, it happened to me when I was in my twenties, but we didn't call it that we just, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That wasn't term a guy just disappeared. Yeah. I, I dated. Very, it was less series of hookups during yeah. During, um, the winter of my junior year of college or something. 

[00:27:55] And uh, and then the guy just disappeared and we go to the same campus, we go to the same school. So I hunted him down and I'm like, cuz there was no cell phones. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of, of course I, I growing up without cell phones too, so right. So, so there was no way of getting to him and I kept showing up at his dorm and he wasn't there and eventually I caught up to him. 

[00:28:14] And I'm like what the freaking hell happened. You know, mm-hmm, , I don't care if it's over. It's obviously over. I just need to know what happened. The mystery of this is just driving me insane. Yes. And he's like, he's like, I was just seeing you during winter break while my actual girlfriend was home on vacation and now she's back and it could be over. 

[00:28:33] And I'm like, well, why not just tell me that? Yeah. I'm okay with that. Yeah. Yeah. You're not the love of my. Yeah, I just need the mystery solved. Yeah, I know. I know I had, this is drive me crazy too, but at some point I, I advise women in the book, like if this is the case and you are asking why, why, why, why? 

[00:28:53] Like just move on because it's. Question. Why will never be answered really? Like in life we can ask why every day there are things happening to us that we are like, why is this happening to me? Right. Like, sure. You can try to reach him. But if he doesn't want to talk, then like you don't wanna spend months thinking why and taking things personally, because it's most likely his problem too. 

[00:29:12] He has a problem. Absolutely. Absolutely. And his. That he has no balls to talk to you directly. And that's not a guy I wanna have in the first place. Like if men can talk to me directly and tell me into my eyes that you know what, this is not for me. He's not a man I wanna be with in first place. Sure, sure. 

[00:29:30] So then I move on even faster. So are there criteria or guidelines that you offer women to help them figure out who is safe to hook up with or, or how to. Navigate their own desires and emotionality as they're getting involved with somebody. Yeah. I have over 20 tips for women, how to actually navigate through hookups. 

[00:29:56] And I love the tips. Yeah, sure. It's just like, you know, first I start very, like in a core, I start with like, what is the hookup and is it for you? So, first of all, I want women to be honest with themselves. So, and know the. Like, am I someone who is hooking up and I actually can take it. That's why I struggle like this. 

[00:30:15] Or am I really there for just the fun? Or am I looking for romance? I really want women to sit down with themselves and I, and think about, what am I looking for? What am I after am? Am I after divorce? And I want five years of fun and that's what I'm going to focus on. Or am I looking for a boyfriend that's very important. 

[00:30:32] And then, you know, The security measures. Like, am I gonna feel bad after? And then you go, like, what do you do? How do you like act after the fact, if he's texting you or he doesn't text you or his reply is lame, what do you do then? Right. What if he's like hiding? What if he ghosts you? Like there's all this communication. 

[00:30:52] Is it really, really detail? Focus on communication in detail. So how do you navigate a communication after? Like how can you reach out to him? What do you actually say? There's a lot of times I had women, they came to me for coaching and they would not know what to text to these guys. And I felt so bad. 

[00:31:09] I'm like, you are not only feeling bad after you had sex with someone, but now you're paying me $300 an hour. To help you construct a text message to a guy you barely know, right? Just say whatever you wanna say, why overthink it? I know, great time with money waste. I felt really bad. And I, I just want women to be honest, I'm like, look, are you falling in love with him? 

[00:31:30] Be honest about it. Right. Because guess what? Maybe he's falling in line with you too. And if he's not, then it's better to stop right now because more you're gonna see him. It's gonna get worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and that's the hardest one. I think when you have really good time with someone and you wanna see him as for casual sex, but you're actually in love with him and you have to stop it, you know, then I have a chapter on like, abuse, like what to do when things happen, like how to protect yourself from those things. 

[00:31:58] And then. Like there's so much in the book. It's, it's not a huge book, but it's very useful. I think it goes straight to the point. It's like pros and cons of hookups where you can actually see 10 pros and 10 cons, and then you can write down, okay, I can deal with this, but I can deal with that. And if you have more cons than pros, then don't do it. 

[00:32:15] Absolutely. You know, very simple, like everything in life. And it's good to break this down for women because I don't want them to be surprised. Yeah. You might be shamed afterwards. Yeah. You might feel some shame if you have sex with someone and you feel like you expose yourself, but it's okay. Just, you know, move on. 

[00:32:31] Don't blame anyone for that. You know, we are adults. Like we are about to, we are able to make decisions for ourselves. And once we made the decision, we shouldn't look back. It's like, and it's sort of a mindset shift. I think, you know, like if you go into it with sort of an, an older generation sensibility, then you might feel more shame or, yeah, I guess it's shame afterwards. 

[00:32:57] Yeah. Like that you had done that. Yeah. But at the same time, you know, if you feel like, you know, he used you, you're also using. You know? Yeah. It goes both ways. I think it's a little bit of a mindset shift. Yeah. That's difficult to navigate I guess, but makes it ultimately easier. Yeah, for sure. And you know, we shouldn't honestly this, like he used me it's detrimental because you feel like a. 

[00:33:23] Team and you start victimizing yourself and you start creating trauma in your brain that shouldn't be there. And trauma is not good for us. It makes us sick at the end. We are like traumatizing our own brain with this. Yeah. Like, oh, he forced me to do it. I'm poor. And I'm like, you start dwelling on these things and then you feel like victim in every aspect of your life. 

[00:33:43] And it's not good. It's literally feeling like that in long run. You will create a lot of other issues for yourself, a lot of other issues and then make. Future choices based on that, the trauma based on the trauma. That exactly. Yeah. So it's not healthy at all? No, absolutely not. No, no. Um, so how has. Is modern technology. 

[00:34:11] This is one of the questions you suggested. I ask you in the, in the intake form, how has modern technology added or aided or hindered dating communication? Like, do you think it's easier for this generation, with the ubiquity of cell phones and things to, to meet people and actually organize this than it was for us before a hundred percent, hundred percent. 

[00:34:33] It's it's much easier. I mean, you can get late every day for social media, if you want. Yeah. Is the easiest thing like Instagram bright. We're good. Yeah. It's all the dating side. Like most people in twenties that I talk to, like younger people. Yeah. I asked them, were you mostly media partners? They say on Twitter or Instagram? 

[00:34:51] Really? Which is fascinating. Yeah. Like the kids, kids in twenties, I would say I, I met a guy once through words with friends. . Yeah, you do. And it's, it's, it's great because you can actually see them and you see how they act like you can actually, if you're following someone you have crashed on, on social media after a while, you can understand who they are because of what they are posting. 

[00:35:14] And then you see, oh, I like them. I don't like them. Then you can reach out and see interesting, you know, and it's like the flu because it's social media. Social media. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Why would you pay for dating? So, I mean, social media. Great. Because you create a persona and then who likes the persona will go like you and follow you and interact with you. 

[00:35:37] Yeah. Yeah. I've got a whole, that whole section on Instagram where. Strangers or you're not friends with can message you. Yeah. And I've got, I don't know what to do with them. I've got a whole, oh yeah. Bunch of them. That's crazy guys trying to like flirt with me. And I'm like, I am a, almost 54 year old married woman with four children. 

[00:35:56] You know? Yeah. It doesn't matter, you know? No, I know, but I'm like, there's nothing about anything on my Instagram. That's gonna say that I'm open to that. Yeah. And so I, I don't even know how to respond to, I just don't respond. You don't respond, but that's the beauty about being a woman, you know, it doesn't really matter how old you are. 

[00:36:13] You've always find men for having sex and the women that tell me it's not true. They just have, A's hard enough problem. They have, they have no self-esteem they're hateful and they don't understand. They just will not accept the positive news that, oh, I can't get late anywhere I want. Right. Because women like, oh, only young girls. 

[00:36:32] No, it's not true. Like, no, it's not true. Even women, as you said, little bit overweight. It doesn't matter. They're men. They love it. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Men. They love women. Like some men consider me ugly because I'm skinny. It happened to me guys said I would not touch you because you have no S 

[00:36:53] Okay, well, I'll share. I have plenty it goes both ways. So like, I always tell women, I'm like, don't despair. You can always have fun if you want. Exactly. But then like, it's the truth is the women that I worked with there in the late forties. Fifties, they say, I just don't wanna, like, I can't imagine to just go and fuck someone, but it's the mindsets. 

[00:37:12] Right. And that's not for everybody, you know, if you don't wanna go do that, then don't go do that. Don't do it. But then don't complain and hate people. They actually do it. Right. You know? Because that's not fair. I'm not gonna hate you because you don't do it. So don't hate me because I would do it. Well, there's a lot in society. 

[00:37:30] I mean, we could talk about this for days. Yeah. Yeah. Where people are judgemental against people who do things or make choices that they wouldn't make, you know, and the truth is they would love to make those choices, but they are scared and don't know how, and they choose to hate the people. They actually do them. 

[00:37:48] And that's oftentimes what happens. Yeah, because people hate that what they would like to have, and they can't because they don't know how or something they don't understand and are scared of. Yeah. But already that they are actually spending energy and thinking about it and hating, it means that they're interest. 

[00:38:06] Oh, well, that's interesting. That's an interesting way of looking at it too. Yeah. If you're not interested in it and it doesn't enter your radar at all, then that's fine. But if you're obsessing over it, then you probably have an interest. Exactly. You just don't know what to do with it. Exactly. 

[00:38:22] Subconsciously. Yeah. Oftentimes mm-hmm. interesting. So what do you tell those people? I mean, do they, how, how do you navigate that? Honestly, if I, I don't like to deal with judgmental people. I was open minded since I was very young. I always loved people. I loved new things. I wasn't judging people for like, I judge people for being bad people. 

[00:38:45] Like when I see someone who is using someone or I see just someone being, having a bad character, I am judgmental towards that. But if you choose to like, do anything with business or sexuality or life or friends and traveling, or you have a certain lifestyle, I do not judge that. Sure. You know, and, and if people are judgemental, I just choose to not have them in my life, to be honest with you. 

[00:39:08] And when I coached people that I would see that they're heavily judgemental and they literally came to do a session with me and in the session, they almost started offending me because I chose this line of work and they thought like they would come to coaching with me to try to tell me that what I'm doing wrong. 

[00:39:24] what that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And I'm like, wow. Okay. So that was surely the last time I would work with these people. Wow. Like they come to me to learn how they can like have more fun in sex or bedroom. And when I have a coaching with them, they actually tell me that what I'm believing in is not right. 

[00:39:42] So I'm like, why do you come here spending 500? Like I don't, I don't get it. Does it get sense whatsoever, but then you see like scared after, you know, in the moment here? No, I think that there is such, such deeply rooted trauma from like, or not even trauma, just judgment. That's deeply rooted from their upbringing of what they believe in that. 

[00:40:00] They get so scared. Yeah. Scared probably. Or judge judgmental even more after. I don't know, but yeah, I don't want to work with people like that. I make it very, very clear that I'm open-minded and nonjudgmental, but the same thing I want from people coming to me because otherwise save their money and my time, I don't want that energy around me, to be honest. 

[00:40:19] Yeah. So, so what, what do you tell somebody? Who 

[00:40:29] is in a relationship with somebody, not a relationship. Maybe it starts out as a hookup and she starts feeling more feelings than he is. Mm-hmm . How do you, how do you mitigate that or, or manage? What, what kind of strategies would you, would you tell this young woman to, to handle the situation that she finds herself in? 

[00:40:49] Well, you have to ask yourself what. What do you expect from this guy? What is your ideal outcome? And am I really in love with him having feelings or is this just me being completely fooled by my hormones and me like having like, you know, because having lust is oftentimes confused with love mm-hmm , you know, and, and like, I really want to. 

[00:41:11] The women to sit down and say, okay, let's think, what do I love about him? What is there that's special about him that I don't have with other guys or friends or me, myself and my girlfriends, like, right. Does he make me laugh? Or like, you know, all these things and be very honest about it. And then look at his life. 

[00:41:28] Like, do I like the way he lives his life? would I wanna have husband like this for 10 month years? Would I wanna be living with someone? Is he clean? How is his household? Like all these things that I wanna know, and then you can rationally say, okay, no, this is not a guy I could be with, so let's not get crazy about him and enjoy the sex if it's good. 

[00:41:49] Right? Or is it someone really. Like checking all the boxes and I'm, I'm here with someone that could potentially be my partner. Then you need to try your best to make him love you. you can read other books, which my book is not on that, but you can read the, the art of ed action from Robert Reney, which I absolutely love. 

[00:42:09] That's like how you make people completely crazy about you and you can strategically do it. And certainly like giving less is more and showing less is more. And a lot of women did that. They had guys that were told players and they were loved sex with them, but there was not even a small chance to, to end up. 

[00:42:27] And they, they made them marry this women. Like they, they, they actually made them, you know, in love. Interesting. I would say made them because it's a strategic process and I don't know women, they would spend months and sometime, even years to get these guys committing, but they were, they knew they awarded, they just are, you know, not into the relationship, but they made them. 

[00:42:49] Do it, lovely and strategically. Wow. But you need to know if you wanna do the work and for whom you want to do the work, is this guys really worth your time? That's what I ask all the women and they say, I don't know, then, then, you know, slowly be finding out. Yeah, exactly. Just move on to something else. 

[00:43:07] Learn. Spanish or I don't know. That's what I wanna do. I dunno. All the time and energy. Right. That's very cool. That's very cool. Yeah. I wish that I had this book when, uh, 10 years ago. yeah. Right. That's awesome. I know. That's awesome. So, um, it's the time of the conversation where we do the seven quick questions. 

[00:43:30] Are you ready? Okay. Okay. What six words would you use to describe yourself? Joyful, passionate, funny, impatient. Hmm. I have two more, right? yes. Energetic. Yeah. And unable to focus. okay. ADHD, right? Okay, baby. Um, what's your favorite way to spend a day? I love to be moving. I love to do things working out trading. 

[00:44:11] I trade the stock market almost every morning. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, just creating things, writing block posts, or like learning. Flooring. Nice every day. I want to learn something. Yeah, me too. Absolutely. Yeah. An UN insatiable curiosity about things. Yes. Yeah. That's awesome. Um, what's your favorite childhood memory? 

[00:44:37] Hmm, probably having a dog really. So 

[00:44:44] one and only dog. I. What kind of a dog boxer. He was so cute. Oh, those are so nice fun. Yeah. Yeah. Was your like canine best friend as a kid? No, you know, it was just fun. Fun animal to have. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. 11 years. . Wow. What's your favorite? Meal type of salad to eat salad, salad, salad. Wow. Yeah, I have to have everyday salad, huge, huge, huge doses of salads. 

[00:45:13] I'm actually addicted to salads and I crave salads. Interesting. Any particular ingredients that you like? I love Greek salads so much. Yeah. Lovely. A little bit of Fata cheese and like the fresh cucumbers. But I add salad leaves into it, which is not real solid, but I, I, I need the green leaves. It's nice when it's crunchy. 

[00:45:36] yeah, definitely. Doggy salad. Forget. No. Yeah. Um, what, one piece of advice would you give your younger self don't waste time with man? Yeah, because the time I wasted with guys, for no reason, I could have made millions of dollars instead, or millions of other happy memories instead. Yeah. Yeah. Or learn, like, I don't know. 

[00:46:00] I mean, I have master degree, but I could have built businesses and, and do things and just like, basically do not waste time with men because most of the time it's not worth it. And women do it all the time. Yeah. They fall in love. They leave their careers, they move, they don't do businesses. They go completely crazy about the guy. 

[00:46:17] They moved to other cities, they forget their, their lives. And I wasted my whole twenties with stupid man, like literal. time that nobody will give me back. I could have studied back then. I didn't have to go to school in my thirties, like crazy. And I was in love trying to, to like marry and have family. 

[00:46:36] And I, I just was completely useless with the wrong guys. The worst. Yeah. Yeah. I did that. So 10 years I wasted really with brown guys, you took me my life. From yourself from that experience? No, just move on fast. You know, like just, just be honest, don't dwell on things. I was dwelling on things and relationships that were completely sick and dysfunctional, wasting my time. 

[00:47:05] Yeah. You know, and now that's why I wrote the book. I don't want women to do this. This is the worst. And especially not for casual sex. Yeah, absolutely. Like use. Yeah, absolutely. Um, what is one P one thing you would like to change about the world? 

[00:47:25] Yeah, just, I think like we're so divided right now. I think that. People, I would love people to have more understanding for each other and go less radical. I think we are just going to too radical, right. And left. Yeah. Too many, especially in the us, too many extremes. Like just be normal, literally like be understanding, help, helpful and, and understand like people almost are losing the, the. 

[00:47:47] The intelligence to understand the other party. Oh yeah. And instead of like understanding and saying, okay, someone might have a different opinion. We just hate. Yeah. And it makes me sick. Really? Yeah. There, there's a very significant loss in the ability to understand, comprehend, be empathic towards people whose views are. 

[00:48:12] Than yours. Yeah. Or lifestyles or, or anything. People are just too extreme. It's like my way or highway. Yeah. And they go like, literally completely crazy extreme if it's not done their way or understood like their way. And I see it and only in politics and everything pretty much. Yeah. True. And I don't think it was like that. 

[00:48:30] Like, I don't think it was like this. Like last five years. Completely crazy. Yeah. Politics, sexuality, the movements also like it's, it's all just too radical. Like we won't get anywhere if we are too radical, it's not gonna happen. It's just part of a pendulum swing. I hope so too. It will slowly sort of. 

[00:48:49] Find the normalize moderate crash. But I think that I, I, you know, like oftentimes in relationships when couples are fighting, they need the escalation and the big color crash, like big crash, like not just the fight, you need something so bad that it's going to completely break them or it's going to make them stronger. 

[00:49:06] Right. You know? And the same. I was thinking for the world, like, we need some horrible thing to happen that we all realized that, okay, let's hang together. And I thought the pandemic was that. Yeah, me too. And maybe at the beginning, but it even made us more divided because of the vaccines, which is completely crazy. 

[00:49:25] Like why ridiculous, ridiculous, or the masks, like who cares? Just like wear the mask don't wear, like, just don't hate others for doing so or so. And now we have the war. yeah. Which is getting like, it's just getting worse. And I really worry that if you're not gonna become normal and understanding and loving towards each other, we are just gonna have massive escalation. 

[00:49:46] That's gonna bypass up half of the population. Right. And that's what I think. I agree. Absolutely. Because we are just not learning from, from our mistakes. We are just getting wars and. Humanity is getting worse. And, and, and I'm sure like, by research, we live in the safest planet ever. And like, the world is the safest as it ever has been comparison to the past, but it can all change in the blink, you know? 

[00:50:14] Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I would approach, but. Yeah. Okay. Now completely changing. Getting a little frivolous here. What TV shows are you binging and loving right now? I don't watch TV. Really excellent. Mm-hmm I watch a movie maybe once a month when I'm like bored or I like evening, I don't know what to do, but. 

[00:50:35] That's very rare. Wow. Yeah. And COVID, I watched the Royals, which was about the English Royal family, which I like, because of all the history. Sure. What else did I watch? I don't know. That's probably one, one. I like, I don't watch any of the Bridget tons and stuff like that. It's just too commercial for me. 

[00:50:53] Yeah. But I don't, I don't watch TV and I watch Tommy li Pamela. Quite interesting for me because I'm fighting for female and she was SLU shamed. And that's what the movie's about. Right. How they dealt with her with the, with the sex tape. And yeah, I, I could feel for her because it was just really ugly back then towards women. 

[00:51:14] We had like no rights. Basically in the nineties even. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that the, that the teenagers and the, um, 20 somethings nowadays sort of take for granted the, the position that women have now, you know that it's still not anything like what we deserve or what is fair or what is right. 

[00:51:35] But it's much better than it used to be. And in such a short period of time. Yeah. Interesting. I just wish we would go around it with a, with a tactical strategic way and be nice about it instead of fighting because. It just doesn't look nice if women get angry and, and aggressive about it and like demanding things, like we would be much more charming and get much more from men, if you would be sweet about it and like, oh great. 

[00:52:00] You know, it's just a strategic way. But I see so many angry women. They are like forcing men to like, Sure. Like we live in patriarchy world. I don't agree with that, but that's how it's been for thousands of years. So we have to be a little bit more strategic about those things. And I think we are often not, and we are just causing a lot of fights, more strike. 

[00:52:20] That's going again, nowhere, because like, even me too, it just made it worse for women and, and everywhere. Like they can't even have like male, oftentimes, like I know companies wouldn't hire women. They look sexy because they're worried of this. Mm-hmm they wouldn't. Like, you know, teachers or tutors they would, or coaches that would be male. 

[00:52:38] And oftentimes the males are very valuable and I would love to learn with males, but oftentimes the big companies would not have men coaching women. Right. And that's horrible where we got from, with this. And that's again, because it got too radical. So yeah. Anyways, Yeah. Talk about that forever. Yeah. And, and in every little, I mean, I see it as a, as a teacher in education, you know, like yeah. 

[00:53:04] You, you need both sexes. Yeah. Yep. Anyway, anyways. All right. It was like a lovely conversation. Thank you for being on permission to heal Leah. It was lovely to meet you. Um, yeah, very nice. It was very sweet. Very nice. Uh, I, with you, thank you so much. Yeah, yeah. Have a good day. You as well.