Permission to Heal

Permission to Heal Episode #43 - A Conversation with Deborah Hawkins - Develop a Gratitude Practice.

September 01, 2021 Marci Brockmann
Permission to Heal
Permission to Heal Episode #43 - A Conversation with Deborah Hawkins - Develop a Gratitude Practice.
Show Notes Transcript

Deborah Hawkins is a freelance writer, workshop designer, facilitator. In 2010, she started blogging on mindfulness and gratitude to bring herself out of depression. is not just a blog. Deb supports the application of mindfulness and exploration of personal gratitude experiences so people can live happier lives.

Connect with Deb Hawkins
Website, Linktree, Facebook, Instagram.

Connect with Marci

Permission to Heal Bookshop - Buy books from the episodes & support independent bookstores. 

 The Permission to Heal podcast is a passion of mine. I need your help to bring more inspirational episodes to the world; please consider becoming a patron through PATREON. 
This is where your PATREON subscription comes in. With your subscription, you get perks and swag and the meaningful contentment knowing you are helping me get PTH to the people who need it. 

Support the show 

Subscribe to PTH on Patreon!
Thanks to all of you who support this show on Patreon.

Support the show

[00:00:00] Good morning, Deb. How are you? Good, good, lovely, lovely to chat with you. How was it in Chicago? Is it a hot steamy? It's been warm some days, but it's been beautiful. The last couple of days I actually spent last evening, he didn't carry out on the lake front with friend. 

[00:00:21] So I enjoyed that. Lovely. I love waterfront things. You know, we live on long island and you'd at people think, you know, everywhere you go, there's a beach and yeah, we're surrounded, but. It's usually a pretty decent, unless you live on the water, a pretty decent drive to get to, you know, like we've got we're on the north shore. 

[00:00:41] So we've got some beaches right here, but they're very Rocky and there's not a lot of waves, but if you want the Atlantic ocean and you want to go south, that's a good 40 minute drive, no matter where you go. So say lovey say lovey. So I usually begin interviews with my six [00:01:00] quick questions to get the ball rolling. 

[00:01:03] Sure. Sure. Okay. So what six words would you use to describe yourself? I'm creative, empathetic, sensitive, resourceful, one more and resilient. Excellent. I think resilience is the key to making a, a long life and not getting tripped up by things. What is your favorite way to spend it? Well, I love to do things. I love to go to have picnics with other people and hear music. And I think I went to brag about Chicago a little bit. 

[00:01:55] They have a wonderful venue called millennium park that was [00:02:00] built about 20 years ago. And I almost have forgotten where the time is gone. They have classical music concerts that are. So I love to make a picnic and gather with a few friends on the great lawn there and here. USAC sounds perfect. 

[00:02:17] Outdoor music to me is like the, my favorite. And it's even greater when other people bring food. 

[00:02:27] And it's a surprise, which I love surprises because you might bring potato salad and Miguel Springs, homeless or something else. Right. Reason everything is magically. Perfect. Right. That's all. I like that. There's a, a town here called north port, not so far from here. And they've got a big gazebo and like a Thursday night, summer concert series. 

[00:02:51] Most of the time, I don't think for the last two years they've done it because of COVID. They don't want that many people together out, although it's outside. I don't know if they're doing it. [00:03:00] And that's always fun. You've listened to the music. You're sitting by the water. Everybody's bringing food and. 

[00:03:07] They just moved last year because of COVID. So they had them this summer and it was like a special treat because I really missed it last year. Yeah. It's amazing how much of our lives were just automatically shut down because of COVID how difficult that all these unanticipated difficulties and disappointments and, and so on that we had to deal with. 

[00:03:35] But, you know, we have to look at the positive side of things. So I guess you're resilient. You're resilient too. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yes. Your resilience and it tests your ability to be flexible and be creative about how you're going to socialize behind closed doors and so on. We found zoom. That's a good [00:04:00] thing. 

[00:04:01] I don't think I would have been able to do this podcast any earlier than I started it because I didn't know zoom existed. And I would have thought that anybody who I would have had on my podcast would have had to have been here with me in real life, you know, in 3d. But now. Conversations with podcast conversations with people in Australia, you know, and that would have never happened. 

[00:04:26] So I almost bought website development software from some of the, in Nepal. I end up doing it, but I realized like, forget calling each other, like, just get on the zoom connection. Right. And figure out what the time differences. So it's really big. An incredible unexpected way to make the world smaller. 

[00:04:50] I agree with you. I agree with you just have to do the math of the time zones and you can pretty much do anything. Yeah. Yeah.[00:05:00] Okay. Number three. What is your favorite childhood memory? I think one of my favorite memories is going with my uncle George to Wrigley field. Which is like the oldest baseball park in the country still. 

[00:05:19] And I was 10 years old. And my uncle George liked me was kind of the black sheep of the family and he loves sports. He would go on tours like his vacations would revolve around, going to St. Francisco to see the bears play the giants or something. So I really developed an affection for sports. So I love being with my uncle, but he also. 

[00:05:44] Started a real love affair with baseball. It was fun to actually see something live in the moment. So I have a real, real affinity for certain sporting events that you could [00:06:00] observe live. That's not like prepared, edited, and fixed. And I also love baseball for a special reason that Time is manner differently than it is in most situations where we always look at the clock time and baseball is spot innings when something takes as long as it needs to take period. 

[00:06:25] And I love that. Yeah, that's cool in that direction. And when I was a little, my dad used to take me to Shea stadium, which no longer exists. It's now city field, I think to see Matt games. Yeah. He was always much more interested in baseball and brought a radio with him so he could hear the color announcing at the same time that we were watching the game. 

[00:06:43] And I was more interested in where the food vendors were, you know, or watching people than I was the baseball thing. And the, for me, I'm not been a huge sports fan, but both of my kids played baseball. My son played baseball. My daughter played softball on a, on the town league here. [00:07:00] Talk about innings taking as long as they take, you've not seen a long ending until you see a little league T-ball game. 

[00:07:09] Oh my God. When they pitch with no outs, just until you get a hit and oh my God. So long, but so cute too. You know, you just have to realize how cute they all are and you don't get aggravated by the time so much, but those were fun games. I miss. I miss that. Now that they're both. I used to have like going to baseball games that were not professional. 

[00:07:35] At times of my life, when it wasn't making much money, I would go to like a park nearby park and I'd just watch like not real little league, but like pony league or whatever, like 14 year olds play baseball. Money didn't play any part in that. They weren't just doing it because they loved it and they would watch, and [00:08:00] those players they're fast pitches and yeah. 

[00:08:05] Excellent. 

[00:08:06] Number four. What's your favorite meal? I sort of laughed because like practiced yoga and I like to do some Eastern. Like influenced a lot by Eastern philosophy, but it was raised as a mediator. So my favorite meal would be like prime rib, medium rare with potatoes and a nice salad, serious. 

[00:08:30] Great. That's mine and probably ice cream for dessert. That's my weakness. Weakness. You have a favorite flavor or. I like a good vanilla, but they also liked pistachio. I like mint chocolate. Nice. So this, you know, I'm open to different ones, but it's funny when they go to other countries like Portugal or are.[00:09:00]  

[00:09:01] I had to sample their ice cream. Many countries think they can have the best July though. Right. And I have to, I go, let me be the judge I have. All right. So what are the results of your, your tablets? I really was surprised at the ice-cream and Boyden Sarah's is very good. I've never, I don't remember ever having ice cream in long island though. 

[00:09:24] I might have. I have a cousin who lives in forest Hills, but just if like a flavor is really rich and creamy, it's like the memory of all summers what's best for them. Well, that's a great phrase. The memory of all summer. I like that. No wonder you're a writer. Okay. Number five. What one piece of advice would you like to give your younger self? 

[00:09:56] Remember that? You're perfect. [00:10:00] Wow. That's perfect. Just the way you are. Right. I'm writing that. It's very easy to like listen to people that are critical and they don't mean necessarily to criticize you, but it feels that way when you're. So to remember that you're perfect. I like that. It's quite profound in its simplicity. 

[00:10:33] I like that. Number six. What is one thing you would most like to change about the world? This is a big one. 

[00:10:43] I'd like it. If people were more interested in the common good or in other people. Absolutely. I think like whether it's advertising or cell phones taking selfies, which I generally don't [00:11:00] like to do. We're encouraged to make things about ourselves. We watch whatever we want to watch in bed on our device. 

[00:11:10] We do everything to suit our own. Short-term wimps and there's something wonderful about that. You could get immediate gratification from that, but there's something that it kind of reinforces. Something that you're missing really, that you need to feel connected to other people and to take other people's needs into account a little bit, not to make it all about them and not to deny yourself, but to take people's needs into the decisions you make. 

[00:11:46] Kim end up actually being more gratifying. I agree. I think that. A lot of the divisive issues that we have, the [00:12:00] polarization that we have in our country has a lot to do with, with. What you're saying, you know, the, the, the selfishness or the self-centeredness of this device economy that we have the, the ubiquity of cell phones and devices and, and, and the ability to stream or curate anything that you want to see or project and social media kind of mirrors for us, or allows us. 

[00:12:29] To curate like a mirror for ourselves where we're only seeing the things that we like to see or things that we're interested or agree with. So that we're less adept at being open to, or listening or accepting of different views, other people's opinions, divergent thinking. And I think that it's made us. 

[00:12:55] Narrow-minded and intolerant to it to a, quite a large degree. [00:13:00] I mean, I, I remember when I was younger, I don't know what age, but I remember hearing and seeing polite debates on things, you know, were we're both sides were prepared intellectually and, and they were. Going at an issue from other, from opposite sides and there wasn't anger or resentment or fear or whatever that gets in the way that creates all that posturing. 

[00:13:32] And I don't think that, I mean, I hope that that the pendulum will swing back and that we'll get there again. I hope so too. And I think. A lot begins by doing it in our own family or our own community to try to take other people work in consideration. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, [00:14:00] even with things as COVID vaccines, I mean, this should not be a political issue. 

[00:14:03] It should not be a bipartisan issue. We're all biologically human. We have several companies who. Miraculously come out with vaccines in, in a crazy short amount of time that I've worked for millions and millions of people to reduce their susceptibility or eliminate their susceptibility towards, towards COVID. 

[00:14:25] And, and there are so many people who listen to non-mainstream non-science based things and just. You know, propagate this anti-vaccination thing, but, you know, we eliminated polio by getting vaccines. We eliminate things like diptheria that no one even thinks about anymore because when we're infants, we, we are the pediatricians just automatically give us these vaccines. 

[00:14:53] And it's saved humanity many times over. Why is this different? I don't know. And it's funny. [00:15:00] I have had like social woman's about getting together with some friends, some people who don't want to do the vaccine and they go, it's not about me. It's not about or a mask. I'm not worried about that. I'm getting sick that way, but I'd like to think that you realize that it's not about getting sick. 

[00:15:24] It's about making it easier for other people to get sick or not like by getting vaccinated, it's about making it easier for other people, especially that have compromised immune systems that you don't know about for them to be stronger. It's not only about. Right. Right. So anyway, 

[00:15:52] I strongly believe that unless you're immunocompromised, if you're 12 and over, you should get a vaccine, [00:16:00] that's it. I'm not a doctor. I'm an English teacher. I have a podcast. But that's what I think anyway.  

[00:16:09] So let's get into it. So you have a website called no small thing, and you wrote a couple of books that were the first one, the best of no small things, mindful meditations was a collection of stuff that came out of your personal blog. 

[00:16:27] Am I correct? Right. And they actually, I have a copy of the book here. There's little heart-shaped stone in the cover. That was a reminder problem. That's so subtle that there's beautiful things to that are already getting your life, right. If you said as an intention to notice them. So likewise, all the stones are the same color or the same size, but they could.[00:17:00]  

[00:17:00] Different meanings, different shapes. And it's up to you to notice that this beautiful thing is right in your environment, right? I collect rocks. Every time I go to the beach, I have a big bowl on my dining room table. It's like the centerpiece that's filled with all these random rocks that I found on the beach. 

[00:17:21] And I just love them. Sometimes. I like the white ones. Sometimes I like the black ones. Sometimes I like the tan ones, you know, whatever. They're cool. So, so how did you get started doing this? What about your life, your childhood, your upbringing, or whatever made you want to start a blog? So I'm going to tell you two things that relate to why it was really important for me to be on your podcast. 

[00:17:48] You resonate with this idea of permission to heal. So, In my case, part of my permission to heal, relates to my childhood, [00:18:00] which relates to why this gratitude practice is so important to me. And the second relates to finding a voice I'm speaking out and being heard. So in the first case I was the youngest daughter of like three Dodgers in my family, but I. 

[00:18:24] Was abused a little bit. One of my there was my sister who's one year older than me. He used to beat me up and She was sort of loud to beat me up because she had a special status in our family. She was born right after I had another sister who died in a car accident. So it's like every person is like born into a family drama. 

[00:18:50] Sure. This already. So my family drama impacted what they experience. So what they experienced. [00:19:00] That it wasn't worthwhile like that I would get beaten up and I would ask my mother to stop this. And she didn't because affecting the EO or emotions of the other team who replaced the one she lost was very important to her. 

[00:19:19] It would be reasons, you know, she had her own reasons why she didn't things for me as a child, I felt like. Low self-esteem. So when they grew up, I grew up with low self-esteem and that affected my marriage and dating life, my work life, of course, so many other things. So when I was really at a low point, I started doing a gratitude practice and because I was writer who wasn't writing, I thought it would be good to have this as a. 

[00:19:55] Had listing practice, but actually reflecting on experience. And [00:20:00] what I noticed after I wrote like a hundred blogs was I tended to write about a collection of things. And by knowing what I tended to write about, I was able to easily more easily find more things to write about. So it was really gratifying for me too. 

[00:20:21] Right. Have something to write about and notice what I really, led to what really uplifted by mode. So I extrapolated from this point and I developed this system for personal gratitude themes, which I now tried to teach that the, if each person understands their own personal gratitude themes, then they could. 

[00:20:47] Practice sing those themes in the world that is around them. Like they don't have to do something special or look to an external force to uplift them. They don't have to [00:21:00] find good, great parking place, you know? So. Model for gratitude practice really meant a lot to me. And now that I know that this works, it means a lot to me to be able to have a conversation with Marcy and people like you to, speak out that this is worth looking at. 

[00:21:25] What do you mean by personal gratitude themes? I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure. I would look into what they write about and try to under identify qualities in those experiences. And then while those qualities down to the most essential thing that. The factor that really uplifted me, that affected me the most emotionally. 

[00:21:55] So when I could do that, then they would ask myself, can [00:22:00] this general idea be applied to other situations? And if that particular experience from a grateful experience from the past can be boiled down into what theme I could use that understanding. Forward to kind of uplift myself in new situations. 

[00:22:23] I know, earlier we talked about my love of baseball. I decided, one, my theme is, and this is pretty common to other people is a sense of belonging. Sure. So sometimes when they go to a baseball game, even if I go in I'm visiting park, it's not unusual for people from Chicago to go to Milwaukee to see a baseball game. 

[00:22:48] So when they see fans we're in the same hat or a rooting for the same team, I feel a wonderful sense of belonging. So it's not just a collective. [00:23:00] Right. So it's not just about baseball, but they might've triggered my recognition of this being important to me. And once I know that, it's really important to me. 

[00:23:11] I'm very grateful for experiences where I feel I belong to something either a group of people or to mankind. And that makes me it uplifts me. So I have a list of my gratitude thing. Belonging, surprise, beauty humor. There's no, everybody has different themes. And, it's also, a celebration of your unique being unique person. 

[00:23:42] Everybody has their own things, too. People could like having a dog, but they might have totally different things. What uplifts them. In other words some people could remember an experience with dog and think that[00:24:00] be really touched by the physical plus minus or the spontaneity or. Having a routine like different things about that relationship. 

[00:24:11] And somebody else could also love having a pet, but they might come up with totally different core reasons, whatever lifts, some about those experiences with their pet. And if one knows their themes, their personal things, they could look at different situations in the moment and say, Or any of my themes showing up here. 

[00:24:37] And you might not think about being grateful for being in a particular situation, but when you realize right, when you, I realized that things you love and value are already in your life, you could elevate your own mode. That's quite profound. [00:25:00] So you start to look at your life through the lens of those themes, and then you see the more you notice them more because you're, you're more aware you're looking for them. 

[00:25:12] Whereas before you identified them, you might miss it. So I really, I know a lot of people, people have gratitude practices where they list like 10 good things that happened to them that day. And I don't deny that that helps put people in a positive frame of mind. Right. But I don't think that is as powerful as a, of a gratitude practice as really learning that gratitude is not what happens to you. 

[00:25:47] It's self-directed. It's about what, you know, profound it's about what you know about yourself. I'm writing that down. So did gratitude about what you know [00:26:00] about yourself and how well you could apply that to being in the moment. Wow. 

[00:26:12] Wow. It just made me think of what I, one of the things I love. Is photograph having photographs of events or my kids growing up or when we get together or, you know, but I have learned, have had to learn how to balance enjoying the moment, live in real life and not pulling myself out of the action to take a picture of it. 

[00:26:40] So I take far fewer pictures. Than I used to, but the couple that I do take are somehow more meaningful because I've, you know, all right, I'm going to get everybody together. Cause I'm going to take this picture and then I'm putting my phone away. You know what I mean? So I take a better picture rather [00:27:00] than taking more pictures and I get to be in it more. 

[00:27:05] Sure. What do you think is like the most important aspect of liking to take photos? Well, isn't that the act of taking the photograph as much as looking at it later and remembering the fun or the loving community, closeness, whatever. Like, cause I'm like, I'm trying, I wrote self-directed gratitude. What I know about myself. 

[00:27:27] And then I started thinking, well, what are my what are my gratitude Femes and I think I have shared laughter. Cause to laugh on my own. Doesn't make me be, but to laugh with other people about something, that really uplifts me, things where I get to spend time with my children our pats, my husband and I have four cats and seven fish tanks of fish. 

[00:27:52] And that I love spending time with, with him. I got to put him on this list photographs of, of, [00:28:00] of specific events I don't know what else, but I would recommend looking at this list further content, and it can't be done quickly, but take some time with these ideas to understand what the court is. 

[00:28:22] Quality is in that situation that makes you feel good because if you know that you don't have to be taking photographs, there could be like something about that, that you could actually apply to other situations or the love you feel with your husband or your children. Like, is it part of being part of the fabric of life? 

[00:28:46] Like something bigger, something. But still true to that experience, still very connected to the experience that thought. But if you can boil them down to like essential [00:29:00] qualities, like apply them to like situations you wouldn't think to be grateful. I see what you mean. Okay. Here's a little example. I remember being in the line in a grocery store. 

[00:29:15] And at first I feel irritation because I'm waiting in line. I don't like to wait and they look at everybody else in the line and we all look at each other or we smile. And I started feeling that I'm in the same situation as everybody else. And I was actually grateful for being in the moment. Like it was a joy for me too. 

[00:29:42] Be in line, you were in community with all the line. Exactly. Be with people I probably won't see or have a conversation with, but I really felt we understood each other. Right. We were having the same experience. And so. I [00:30:00] don't recommend necessarily to only think about your themes, like being in the moment. 

[00:30:07] Sure. What you experienced in the moment informs what your themes might be, but sometimes it works the other way where you find yourself in a moment and they ask yourself, I'm not feeling good, or I'm not really connected here. How can I feel connected to how can I uplift myself? And this really can be very powerful, these little switches you make, based on what you already know about yourself, the world doesn't change, but you tap into what you know about yourself and say, okay, I could live with this. 

[00:30:45] It's okay. Wow. That's quite profound. So, so some of the most more, most meaningful. Changes. And on perspective happened with these little tiny minute adjustments we make [00:31:00] in our own thinking. Yes, I think so. I know a lot of people were really disoriented about the pandemic because they couldn't do the normal things. 

[00:31:11] And one thing I did was I made the playlist. On Spotify music playlist, and it was a chance to use creativity and use music and share music, you know? And then I found myself experiencing great joy from this because. I could do, this is something I had, so it's not like the situation in the world change, but I decided to focus on things I loved. 

[00:31:44] I would, even though I was. Kind of like everybody else stuck at home. I looked at the corner of my living room and I saw my exercise, some of my exercise equipment some balls that they used to play with my [00:32:00] dog, other things. And I thought, gee, if I'm going to be stuck anywhere, home is a good place to be. 

[00:32:07] I was luckier than many people because I didn't have to go out in the world a lot. So some upset was fortunate about, but a lot of my mood really depended on. What do you decide to, to focus on exactly. Exactly. I didn't mind being home. I was working from home for a while. I'm a teacher, so we were on remote for a while. 

[00:32:32] And then but I was home stuck home. My favorite place to be. I built this house, you know, so my kids were home because college was all remote and my husband was home cause he wasn't working. And we just had a lot of unexpectedly, amazing time together that we wouldn't have had before. You know, I wouldn't have had my two college aged kids home at all. 

[00:32:55] My son would have been working in internship in Maryland and wouldn't have been home and my daughter would have been in [00:33:00] Massachusetts and instead we were all here and it was hell. I'm sad to see it end in a way, you know, it's good that they're going back to their lives, but good. Such a cool. 

[00:33:21] Yeah. So for quite a few, two years now, just talking about my gratitude practice is not particularly organized like yours. I could see how this is. This is I don't want to say better or worse, but certainly, more effective, potentially effective way. I have this gigantic Mason jar in our bedroom and a sheet, a very thick pad of very tiny little pieces of paper. 

[00:33:46] And whenever something good happens. Or something that makes us happy. An event could be a movie we liked could be a meal. We liked could be just a conversation. It [00:34:00] could be anything. It doesn't really matter. We jot it down on the paper with a little date on it and stick it in the jar. And slowly throughout the year, we see the jar fill up, which is sort of a visual reminder that we have a lot to be grateful for. 

[00:34:14] And then on new year's Eve, Afternoon the afternoon of new year's Eve, my husband and I make our bed and dump the jar out and spread them around and then just pick them out and read them to each other and sort of relive all of the things that we were grateful for throughout the year. And it's, we've only been married four and a half years, so we've only done this like five times, but I think I like it. 

[00:34:39] Wonderful habit too. When you're sharing your red sued and think it's a wonderful thing. I tell I do some lectures with the senior group and I tell them that it's good to keep. They're saying misery loves company. Sure. If you're happy or you feel [00:35:00] grateful, you're probably likely to keep the company right. 

[00:35:04] Exactly. It's really nice to be able to share. Good feelings or pleasant memories with somebody else that in itself is a bond. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. I actually have more things to stick in there that we haven't done from the past couple of weeks. Okay, so you have a lot of stuff going on. 

[00:35:30] You've got explained to me. I'm I was trying to read you were. The answers on the guest survey, you've got zoom sessions and a digital course that you're doing. Explain all this to us. So we know how to get in contact with you. We can learn more amazing things from Deb Hawkin. Well, recently I'm trying to like catch up with social media. 

[00:35:51] I'm not very good at this. And I recently opened a link tree account. So my link tree is called [00:36:00] grateful lab. If people want to get a, like a quick overview of my courses, I think it links to like pages in my website. So I wrote two books. I published two books a couple of years ago. One is on this collection of my grad students reflections from the first 10 years of having the blog. 

[00:36:24] So I'm guessing I posted it almost every week. So I have over 500 posts, total and in the book, maybe 50 or so from that period. And the other book is a very simple workbook. It's not as much as I cover within my courses, but it's a good it's called practice gratitude. Transform your life. Make the uplifting. 

[00:36:51] Experience of gratitude intentional. I really feel very strongly that making gratitude, not [00:37:00] about bad response to something that happened, but being a self-directed experience is really powerful. And so I published these two books, but they're self published and then always trying to find ways to get them out more, to get rid and get the word out. 

[00:37:20] So that takes up a lot of time. I also do now a zoom course called helium for your heart helium for your heart. That's awesome. Helium your heart elevate your outlook through intentional granted too. So, I tried to do this as open enrollment on event bright every two months or so. So basically we go over the. 

[00:37:48] Tenants of intentional gratitude as I practice it, the idea of practicing gratitude, getting to know your own things. [00:38:00] And I cover like three ways to look at your things. One is what you know about yourself automatically. The other is by exploring a peak experience. And third might be by looking at photograph. 

[00:38:15] You might not think about this intentionally, but if you quietly look at photographs, you've taken. And ask yourself, why did that really appeal to me? Or what, what did they want to capture from that? So it might, you might not have thought about it when you took the picture, but when you look at later, it might jog some ideas that would lead to things. 

[00:38:40] So then the third aspect would be practicing those themes in your life, in your daily life. So in my healing for your heart, I actually go over how to pick out your themes. I'm starting to offer coaching on this, but it's kind of an [00:39:00] extension. If anybody wants to more help to read their own things. 

[00:39:05] And that's mostly what I'm doing now. Sounds like you're changing lives. Well, I want him to be on podcasts. Like you're sitting here because. I think this would really could be valuable for everybody, but people have to resonate with this. They, it's not like religion. I tell people very upfront that it's important to practice gratitude. 

[00:39:37] Based on your authentic feelings. Now, what somebody told you to be grateful for. And when you connect with your own feelings, you're kind of celebrating yourself. You're saying what they think and feel really matters. Right. And I think this is wonderful. So besides like feeling good, it's like a confidence booster. 

[00:39:59] [00:40:00] Sure. You go into any situation and say, There's probably something in here I might not love, but I could appreciate. And knowing that you could like walk into more situations and be okay with that. Wow. So it's, it's like, you're, you're arming yourself with self-love as you go around the world and do to. 

[00:40:30] Right, sometimes I know, David, Steindl-Rast the, the monks that did this Ted talk about. If you want to be happy, be grateful. And that's really a strong theme in what I talk about. Yeah. What'd they say like happiness as like a peak moment is often short-lived or people often don't know that they were happy until [00:41:00] it's over. 

[00:41:01] And I really think it's dangerous to kind of seek happiness of this nature. That's short-lived in a big, hot, but it's wonderful to have a general contentment about your life. And I think. Arming yourself with how you could go back to the state of gratitude by identifying the things that you value that all already around you is the way to be happy, because if you sprayed from like feeling great, you could come back to this. 

[00:41:40] And that's for that positive baseline, the best we could do is coming back to a good place. Yeah. Yeah. You could use it as a, I don't, I don't know if the right word I'm thinking of, but when you're faced with a situation that is uncomfortable [00:42:00] or anxious causing or less than positive than you. Call on this arsenal of your personal gratitude themes to help you help insulate yourself or protect yourself from that, because it's not going to get into damage you because you're already thinking about all these positive things and feel better about yourself and your own validity and your own efficacy and your own. 

[00:42:27] What's the word I'm looking for? Graciousness gratitude. How do you make that into an app and an adjective? I don't know. 

[00:42:36] You got to lose it. It's like saying you're open. Yeah. Feeling good. You're not your heart's not hard. Like you're open to letting things into your heart. That's a good way to live. That's a great way to live. It's quite powerful. Wow. So I'm going to link [00:43:00] those of you who are listening. Thank you for being here. 

[00:43:02] I all of the links to Deb Hawkins website and her books and her link tree, and all of that, will be attached on the show notes. So just scroll down and we'll all be there waiting for you. Along with her social media links and so on. This has been great. A long time in the making and no talk for awhile over time. 

[00:43:27] And I don't, don't go every week, but I have listed quite a few of your podcasts and I really enjoyed them there conversations with people, but relatable experiences and also discoveries. And this kind of relates to kind of my second goal. That I think a lot of people are going through now that it's not about having a degree or a job or whatever, it's about having something to share and [00:44:00] finding a way to do that. 

[00:44:01] So I think this is like permission for me to speak up, but also permission for anybody else that has something to say, to be in a podcast. Yeah. And, and the only person who can help you grow the only person who is responsible for your happiness, the only person who, can direct your healing is you, which is really where the, the mission of this podcast was born. 

[00:44:33] Because we can't. Successfully look external to ourselves for all the gifts and the beauty and the love and the things that we want in our life that make us feel good. And that allow us to heal from trauma or to heal from bad experiences. We're the ones that are in the driver's seat, where the ones that. 

[00:44:55] Responsible. We're the only ones who can do it, even if we [00:45:00] wanted to give the responsibility to somebody else you can't because it's not effective. So permission to heal is self-directed it's it's however, whatever we need to make ourselves whole and happy and healthy and feel connected and belonging and, and gratitude. 

[00:45:21] All of that. You know, we, everything that we need in our lives is already inside of us. We just have to be courageous enough to dig deep and look for it. Thank you for this message. You're welcome. Thank you for being here. This was wonderful.