Permission to Heal

Permission to Heal Episode #17 - A Conversation with Sari Dana, Body Positivity & Mindset Coach as we get real about our bodies, dieting and our expectations.

March 10, 2021 Marci Brockmann Season 1 Episode 17
Permission to Heal
Permission to Heal Episode #17 - A Conversation with Sari Dana, Body Positivity & Mindset Coach as we get real about our bodies, dieting and our expectations.
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Permission to Heal
Permission to Heal Episode #17 - A Conversation with Sari Dana, Body Positivity & Mindset Coach as we get real about our bodies, dieting and our expectations.
Mar 10, 2021 Season 1 Episode 17
Marci Brockmann

Sari Dana is positively inspired to create change by helping others learn to love their bodies, access their inner happiness by using positive affirmations, and educating on ending diet culture. Her mission is to help girls, teens, and women recognize that diet culture is all around us and we have the power to recognize it and unlearn all the negative messages that keep women and girls feeling “less than” and “never enough!” 

💚
It bothers her that we live in a society of perfectionism and a social media culture that promotes diet culture and the idea that we are never enough. She loves teaching about intuitive eating, too. Dieting has been one of the most detrimental sicknesses in America and she wants to change that and help us all develop a healthy relationship with her own body and food by teaching them the power of their mind. 

💚
 She teaches in schools, organizations, live events, birthday groups, and private sessions! Sari’s 8-week Body Love Recipe course is interactive and online and so are her intenSati Body Positive Fitness classes

💚
Sari covers all things self and body such as self-care, positive mindset training, self-love, and intuitive eating, and learning about diet culture as a whole and I reveal some sensitive secrets of my own experience.
💚💚💚💚💚
Get in touch with Sari Dana
Her Website - https://www.saridananyc.com/
Her email - https://[email protected]
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sari.dana.58
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/zensari_/
💚💚💚💚💚
Connect with Marci
Website - www.marcibrockmann.com
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/PermissiontoHeal
Instagram - www.instagram.com/marcibrockmann27/
Facebook - www.facebook.com/marci527
LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/marcibrockmann/
💚💚💚💚💚
Thanks to all of you who support this show on Patreon. You keep Permission to Heal up and running.  25% goes to Caron Treatment Centers where lives impacted by addiction and substance abuse are transformed. They can help. Go to www.caron.org. Come along with me. Join and subscribe today for added PATRON perks and swag. Check out www.patreon.com/permissiontoheal for all the things.
💚💚💚💚💚
Get your own copy of my books:
Permission to Land: Searching for Love, Home & Belonging - a memoir
Permission to Land: Personal Transformation Through Writing - journal workbook
💚💚💚💚💚

Wanna see what we all look like? Prefer to watch rather than only listen?
Check out the videos of each episode of

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/PermissiontoHeal)

Show Notes Transcript

Sari Dana is positively inspired to create change by helping others learn to love their bodies, access their inner happiness by using positive affirmations, and educating on ending diet culture. Her mission is to help girls, teens, and women recognize that diet culture is all around us and we have the power to recognize it and unlearn all the negative messages that keep women and girls feeling “less than” and “never enough!” 

💚
It bothers her that we live in a society of perfectionism and a social media culture that promotes diet culture and the idea that we are never enough. She loves teaching about intuitive eating, too. Dieting has been one of the most detrimental sicknesses in America and she wants to change that and help us all develop a healthy relationship with her own body and food by teaching them the power of their mind. 

💚
 She teaches in schools, organizations, live events, birthday groups, and private sessions! Sari’s 8-week Body Love Recipe course is interactive and online and so are her intenSati Body Positive Fitness classes

💚
Sari covers all things self and body such as self-care, positive mindset training, self-love, and intuitive eating, and learning about diet culture as a whole and I reveal some sensitive secrets of my own experience.
💚💚💚💚💚
Get in touch with Sari Dana
Her Website - https://www.saridananyc.com/
Her email - https://[email protected]
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sari.dana.58
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/zensari_/
💚💚💚💚💚
Connect with Marci
Website - www.marcibrockmann.com
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/PermissiontoHeal
Instagram - www.instagram.com/marcibrockmann27/
Facebook - www.facebook.com/marci527
LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/marcibrockmann/
💚💚💚💚💚
Thanks to all of you who support this show on Patreon. You keep Permission to Heal up and running.  25% goes to Caron Treatment Centers where lives impacted by addiction and substance abuse are transformed. They can help. Go to www.caron.org. Come along with me. Join and subscribe today for added PATRON perks and swag. Check out www.patreon.com/permissiontoheal for all the things.
💚💚💚💚💚
Get your own copy of my books:
Permission to Land: Searching for Love, Home & Belonging - a memoir
Permission to Land: Personal Transformation Through Writing - journal workbook
💚💚💚💚💚

Wanna see what we all look like? Prefer to watch rather than only listen?
Check out the videos of each episode of

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/PermissiontoHeal)

.Hello, and welcome to permission to heal. I am so glad you're here. , I am Marci Brockman, and I am here today. Talking with Sarah Danna. I've been looking forward to this for weeks.

Sarah is positively inspired to create change with helping others to learn, to love their bodies, access their inner happiness by using positive affirmations and educating on ending diet culture. Our mission is to help girls, teens and women recognize that diet culture is all around us. And we have the power to recognize it and unlearn all the negative messages that keep women and girls feeling less than, and never enough.

It bothers her that we live in a society of perfectionism and a social media culture that promotes diet culture, and the idea that we are never enough, she loves teaching about intuitive eating too. Dieting has been one of the most. Detrimental sicknesses in America and she wants to change it and help us all develop a healthy relationship with our own bodies and food.

By teaching us the power of our own minds. She teaches in schools, organizations, live events, birthday groups, and private sessions. Sorry's eight week body love recipe course is interactive and online. And so are her intensity positive affirmation, fitness classes. She helps women learn to love their bodies.

And access their inner happiness by using positive affirmations and education in ending diet culture. And if you are like me listener, you need this welcome. Sorry. I'm thrilled. You're here. Thank you so much, Marcy, as you were reading that, I was like, wow. Is that really me? That's you. Everything that I know about you, that's you know, it's something that I've always dreamed of doing, and it's really feels great to actually be doing the action of it and actually the lives being changed.

So as you're reading it, I was just like closing my eyes and I'm like, ah, those are real soothing words. That's awesome. That's awesome. So how did you get into this? Yeah, this is such an interesting conversation. Cause I think about it actually all the time, I have been in the fitness world, in the body perfection world in Wiener, stronger fitter than our world in restricted eating, you know, Yeah.

As much as you can eliminate this and eliminate that for many, many years, I started, I would say 1991, teaching fitness classes. And in that, wow, it's been a long time, like 30 years. But towards the end, I would say about somewhat recent, I would say about six years ago. Things just didn't seem right to me anymore.

Things didn't seem like this is the way health should be there for health. We all want to get healthier. We all want to be fitter and stronger, but I was seeing. I wasn't seeing a synchronicity with it. I was seeing that things were taking into extreme. Girls were looking that was showing me they're very, very thin bodies and asking me, how can they get thinner?

How could they make their thighs have by gap? You know, things like that. Just unrealistic. I mean, not everybody's bodies are built that way. Yeah. And I would notice that in the back of the class, it was always like, you know, the girl who didn't have that body type in the back shy, or I couldn't come to class until she fits that ideal.

And with myself, I started realizing, you know what, I'm not in a healthy space. Right. And the part that really got me, and this is like, this is really the thing is that I was really trying to eat as healthy as I could, the way most people do, but the healthier I was trying to be, the more I began to binge eat.

Okay. I can see that relationship in my own life actually. And that was it. And I was like, wait, why am I binge-eating what is going on? I thought something was so wrong with me. Even though all those years of trying and fixing and doing nothing was ever enough. And I'm like, that's, it makes sense. Why can't I be happy with my body?

Why can't I enjoy my food? Why is there so much drama with food and body? It just didn't make sense. Sense to me. Yeah. Literally one day I said, you know what? That's it I'm done. I'm ready to get fat. That's honestly, because if you let go of the reins, that's the only thing that could happen. Yeah. That's the only thing that will happen.

If I let go, I will become fat. At that time, I started to read a lot of books about not necessarily bodies or food, but just that acceptance, acceptance of people, acceptance of yourself. Opening up your heart, living life with kindness and compassion. And it was always that type of person, but I started to seed in a different light and I said, you know what, what if I could show that same kindness to myself?

Right. What if I can show that same compassion to myself, what if, however, I would look would just be fine because that's not really my work. So I started to value myself that wasn't only about my looks, which was very different in my world. Yeah. It didn't really come from, to go from fitness classes of perfectionism to that is 180 degree shift.

Yeah. So. While I was getting healed and I was getting to a really happy spot. My whole following, like left, gone,

and I would have like a hundred people in my class that dwindled to one, two and three. Wow. And it was like, wow, they couldn't do the shift with, you know, and if I have to go back, I probably should have been a little bit more gentle about it. Right. But I was so drastic. I was the type of person when I find something.

And then I find it to be my truth. I need to scream it from the rooftops. Yeah. It's just like, no other way about it. So as my, I knew my following loved me, but I knew as well that I needed this space and they maybe needed it too. We weren't on the same. Wave at that point. Right. And I just said that I will be fat. I will be healthy. I will be healed. And that will be my life. And time went on and I started to eat what I wanted and how I wanted it.

I started to eat foods that I've never eaten in my life for the first time, basic food, like a tuna for sandwich. I hadn't eaten a tuna fish sandwich before. I mean, Mm, probably not. Cause I remember that was a big thing. Like I said, I just want to eat tuna fish with me knees and white bread. So you would have tuna, but without Mayo and without bread.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to ha I just want to eat it like the way I want to eat it. Right. Things like that. I started to like taste foods for the first time and I was like, wow, this is such a different feeling. And as time went on, I did not get fat. And that was another huge aha moment for me. And I was like, we, we, this whole time of my life, I've been focusing on not being fat, restricting calories, working really hard in my fitness and here yet I'm still exercising daily because that's who I am decided to love my body.

In any way or form, I'm really happy. I'm eating actually healthier because I'm no longer binge eating. Right. I think I got something here. The binge-eating comes from stress. And so I think, I think when we try to micromanage every little calorie that goes in our mouth, it causes such stress that when we see mass quantities of something we love, we just.

Suck it down, actually, Marcy, while stress does play a role in how much we eat it mostly comes from literally not eating enough, our bodies. And I know people say, what do you mean? I eat all day, not enough calories. Sometimes it's not, yeah. Only not enough calories, but it's not enough of food that we love.

Oftentimes, we're not, we lose the permission to eat permission to heal. We lose their permission. So it goes hand in hand, we lose the permission to say, this is what I want, and this is how I want it. And this is what's going to satisfy me without the voices in the head. Without the staring looks up judgmental from other people in our lives that sometimes look at us and are like, Oh, you're eating that.

Right. So taking all the noise away actually helps us become full tap back into our hunger and fullness, choose our desires and things simply fall in place. It's hard to let go of that, but once you get into it, it's a practice and it really, it really works. For great physical, healthy, mental, and emotional wellbeing.

It's really nice, amazing, um, been victim of this diet culture thing for ever. Yes. You know, and I'm also an emotional eater. I just am. So when I get stressed, I want a snack. I need some sort of even it's mindless because I don't even know that I'm eating it half the time, but, And since menopause and my hysterectomy,  just don't.

Bounce back the way they used to, you know, I'm 52 and things are how they are, but I started working with a dietician and we did blood tests to the whole leap, whatever it was called. And they, they did like 150 blood tests to find out my body's inflammatory response to. Two pages of different foods.

So I have clinical results that prove for the demonstrate, what foods my body likes and reacts well to and what things I have to avoid. And I've been doing that as much as the pandemic will let me do since last January. And. By and large, I've gotten rid of gastrointestinal issues and bloating and all that sort of thing.

I've gotten rid of headaches that I used to have from having too much sugar. And, and I know like, all right, if I'm going to eat this ice cream before bed, I'm going to wake up with a headache tomorrow, but I want the ice cream. So dammit, whatever, I'll take Advil in the morning.  But because I haven't been moving and I've stopped exercising and I'm a couch potato, the weight has just come back and.

I wrestle with myself, , like almost on an hourly basis. Like I'm totally fine with it. I'm totally accepting. Everything's great. And then I go look at myself in the mirror and I'm like, uh, no, but then the next five minutes, I'm like, yeah, it's totally fine. I'm 52. This is what I look like. My husband still loves me all is good in the world, you know?

So I don't kind of know. Where I am. I definitely hear that and not, and I think even the healthiest minded people think that same way, you know, our bodies do change over time, but that's something we really do need to accept them in my fifties as well. And I, I go through that as well. You know what. It is what it is.

This is what happens. Our bodies change. I'm not going to look like I did when I was 35. Yeah. Great conversations to have with our kids. From when they're young, they should already know that the same way they go through puberty and they're changing. And then they go through adulthood and changing. Yeah.

They're always going to change. And that's why the whole body perfection talking about it is always so detrimental because we believe that our bodies don't change. But here you are literally talking to yourself and saying, my body is changing. It's something I do need to accept. And some days it's this way or that way.

One of the conversations that I love so much is body respect, because it gives you. A way to say, I respect my body at all sizes at all shapes and all ways I give my body the respect that it deserves. It sends me out into the world. It allows me to hug. It allows me to love, it allows me to use my bodies in more ways than ever imaginable life.

And I, and I. Love with this body. And I learn what this body and I create art with this body. And yeah, sometimes I like to change the word love for respect. Cause sometimes love just seems like too big of a leap, but respect. I think we can all relate to that a little bit. Yeah. That is easier actually.

Yeah. Yeah. And I also think that what you've been doing is great because you put in a level of awareness that. Then that's exactly what intuitive eating is, is that you're becoming aware of what feels good in your body. And here you just said, you know what, if you eat ice cream, you're going to wake up with a headache.

So that's definitely not something sometimes it's will, I'm willing to trade that off as the ice cream. So good. I mean, it's, non-dairy ice cream. I can't do any dairy anymore. Little bit to your body. Not much. I can't. So. So, so as long as you've sort of touched on it, yeah. What is intuitive eating? Oh, it's such a great conversation.

So intuitive eating is the, is an amazing way to get back in touch with yourself and how your body feels and relationship to food. Decades and decades we've been told pretty much what to eat and how to eat it. Even if it's subliminal, even though, even if it's in the back of our minds, Oh, this is unhealthy.

This is healthy. This is good for you. But most of the foods that are right now in our marketplace is a result from marketing. You know, we're all in love with kale because it's. It's been marketed that way. Yes, it's healthy. Yes. I love kale juice and I drink all I love, I love smoothies all the time, but the pole, I could bury it in a smoothie, but don't make one time.

I tried to make kale like a vegetable with dinner. I immediately threw it out. I just couldn't eat it. I've tried it in a salad. Chopped up really small with cranberries and nuts is that your style could be. Could be, I like it that way. Chapter really small. And when you're making me want to eat it, now I have to go ahead and buy it again.

It's always good to have these reminders. Sure. Yeah. So intuitive eating really takes us back to work. Initial body trust that we were born with, that was a gift of God's. We were already known from birth when we're hungry. And we called that out by crying already know from birth when we're, when we're full of, we do that by a baby, turning his head or fussing with not wanting any more food anymore.

And over time we've lost that touch. And now when we see food, that's off limits, we where we're trained to hoard it. And because we feel like we're never going to have it again. And we're forgetting that we can't be in touch with ourselves, but it does take a level of mindfulness and awareness. And right now, going through these years go and getting back in touch with an awareness of what feels good to our bodies.

That our bodies really, really do know. And it's something that I've been practicing by accident. When I learned the story that I told you that when I went back and I said, I'm just going to eat whatever I want to become fat. So that eating, whatever I wanted was intuitive eating without ever knowing the term.

I realized the term later, as it became really popular, the intuitive eating book, which is a really nice book. If anybody would like to read it, but it's, it's a really nice way to level down. Get in touch, bring back mindfulness of, of what is it that you want instead of going with, I'm supposed to have four ounces of this or a half a cup of that or portions.

I think everyone is so targeted on that. Like, like we had enough who want to get rid of it. Yeah. I was on a diet about two years ago that I had to go buy a food scale. And I was literally like weighing how many ounces of broiled salmon I could eat and how almost, how many grains of rice I could. It was ridiculous and sure.

I lost eight pounds in the two weeks, but I wanted to ring my neck. I started to see food as the enemy. Like if I could only get away with not being hungry and not have to deal with food at all, life would be perfect. And that I realized that's just a sickness. You know, there, there was a pause. You realize that, Oh my God, there was a portion of time when I was going through my divorce in 2006, 2000, nearly 2006.

And I felt like the only thing I could control in my life was what I ate. And so I was like a military general controlling, everything that I ate. It was 1400 calories a day. I was like, Exercising, almost nonstop. Imagining like every squat I did was taking away from the calories I ate so that I would have a calorie deficit that day.

And I started again, you know, I had this habit, it was 10 years before I started seeing food as an enemy. And then I would eat something and. I caught myself sticking my fingers down my throat and forcing myself to throw up what I had eaten. And I only did it like two or three times before I went, wait a minute, this is how bulemia starts.

What are you doing? This is dreadful. Stop doing this. You enjoyed what you ate. You're a little full now. Be mindful of the feeling and don't get this full again, but stop making yourself throw up. And I never did it again, but it scared the crap out of me. Marcy. Wow. Wow. Wow. I am so glad you shared that and like still taking it in.

It was difficult, you know, I, I really felt like the only thing I could control was my food and my body. And so I was, militaristically controlling it in my mind. It was Marcy bootcamp that summer. And, um, yeah, I don't think I ever looked better, but I didn't feel healthy. Even though I was fit, adjust.

Didn't. No. Yeah. And he's touching upon so many topics. One of them is how his diet is disordered eating. It is yeah. It's 100% disordered. It's not normal eating it's 100% disordered and over time it is a conduit to eating disorders. Okay. So this is really a conversation that I love to bring out for the kids and the teens.

So I'll start the diet because it can get overboard. When you think about things in terms of the calorie burn and had to eat less and how to burn more calories. So the end of the day, the total amount is less, is something that really calculates in the brain. And it's so easy to get on that train. And unfortunately, so many that are on it.

It's really hard to get off. So. You are amazing how you took notice and you're like, this is not right. I don't know if he could see, but behind me I have a big sign. Do you see that? It says if an eating disorders begin with disordered eating, so the way you said it, like just really summed it up. So whoever's listening, don't start a diet.

There are other ways to be healthy and dieting is not healthy by any means. No, I mean, I wanted a peanut butter and jelly sandwich this afternoon for lunch. It was comfortable. It was freezing and snowing outside. I made myself a peanut butter jelly sandwich, but I had the jam that I figured out from the nutritionist, my body likes.

So, you know, it was organic cherry and it, and yum,

Oh God, it's so good. I love it. I love it. You know, I, I might have hot cocoa later or something, you know, but SOA it's cold and. And your body knows your body will tell you if you have too much sugar, it really does. You buy, say, I feel headachy, or I just don't feel right. And then your body, the next day will gravitate more towards fruit or vegetables.

It just really works in that cycle. And I think letting go of, of the controlling of the food allows us to leap forward into saying, you know what? I can, I can figure this out. Yeah. I, I th the, the part of it that I, that that gets to me though, is the portion control when I'm feeling anxious, because I want to eat more because it, it does in the moment, give me immediate comfort.

It is immediate gratification. So whatever it is that I'm eating, and it could be dinner that I'm having a larger portion of it doesn't necessarily have to be a bowl of ice cream or chips. I really like sweet and salty anyway, but I love to. Talk about because people really are definitely have issues with emotional eating.

 Number one is first go through options that have nothing to do with food. You know, for me, it's always take a shower. Like I already know that, that I, yeah. That's for me when I come home after a long day and presently, I'm not working outside my home, I'm working inside my home. Like at the end of the day four o'clock five o'clock I shower.

I wash the day away. I de-stress water is therapy. Yeah. It's really therapy. I feel good. Sometimes I take a hot bath. I probably take a hot bath around four times a week. That's for me. I already know that it works at that point. I'm able to see things differently. So my emotions had already calmed. They already simmered.

They already, they already relaxed. So I'm not going into the food. , with that tiger feeling, it's vital to learn this and everyone has their own self-care point that they can tap into. For some people it's walking around the block for some people, it could be , just sitting alone for me, it's alone time, but I have some clients actually, it's just the opposite.

Right. Walking with her friends, she wants to be yapping on the phone. That's what she loves and enjoys it. I'm like really? That's what you like. She's like, yeah. I'm like, okay. But I think that we should first take the emotions. In a calm away breathing so important. And I know you said you haven't been exercising so much because I meant dynamic.

I'm going to get you on my zoom class. I, , I subscribe to this yoga app thing that I read about on Instagram and I was so excited and I, it was going to be my new turning over a new leaf thing. Cause I could do 20 minutes of yoga a day. I mean, that's what's 20 minutes. Absolutely. I'm playing this little video, this little.

Puzzle game on my phone. And I was so excited that January, what was it? January 17th. I hit a thousand day streak. If I can play the stupid game on that.

Yeah. Then you, why can't I do something else for five, 10, 15 minutes a day?  I could do the stupid game for a thousand days. Why can't I do yoga or Pilates or,  meditate or, or all of the above. You know, like, and you can adjust. I know I can. I just do not schedule the time in. Yes. I was just going to say it's all, as, you know, as we all know, it's all about scheduling and sticking to your word and making it small enough that it's attainable enough.

Right. You know, small enough, whatever it is, 10 minutes jumping jacks up and down your staircase. If you have stairs in your house and make it that it becomes routine because motion equals emotion, which ultimately believes the emotions of the eating. So these things, when it becomes daily habits, they truly, truly help with our self-care and our not only our physical body, obviously, but our emotions.

Sure were able to deal with things differently when we feel better in our bodies, um, of huge average kid for exercise, any, any sort of any kind, and which leads me into what intensity. Oh yeah, absolutely. You were going to get that to that, to next and 10 Saudi positive fitness classes. Absolutely. And I'm like, this is just the perfect concert because I would love it.

For people to know, first of all, all fitness is good fitness, any type of movement, joyful movement. It's all great to lift up your energy. But because I love positive affirmation so much, I somehow tapped into this wonderful, wonderful class insincerity that I'd been, um, a verified teacher for over 10 years now.

I've been using it for myself in my own yelling, and that's why I use this to help others. So what we do here is we take a set of affirmations. That I would, give you, let's see if I could give you one now. Um, Hm, let's see. I didn't prepare one, but I'm going to think about it. Oh, I have one right behind my wall.

I am powerful, beyond measure. I am stronger than I seem. I am braver than I think, and I am blessed with all I need. Wow. Yeah. The affirmations in itself is beautiful and strong and empowering. And then we put those exact words to move such as punches, such as liftoffs such as rolling palms that is coming down, coming up, such as.

Moving from the heart pushing out and you see the words I lead the class. So I Sade and the students recite right after me as we're doing it. So I am powerful, beyond measure. I am stronger than I've seen. I am braver than I think I am blessed. All I need as we do that, you know, from the outside, it might look silly.

I don't know, I'm actually just watching you do this listeners. We're doing this on zoom. So I'm watching her move her arms and do this. And it's the most uplifting thing I'm uplifted. Just watching you do it, let alone having done it myself. I'm telling you now imagine doing this for 50 minutes. Wow. You do different affirmations.

Not the same one over there. Every, every class it's a different set of four and, and I link it that we'll use, let's say it's, Okay. Now that was talking about, I'll tell you the whole thing. Every month I teach a new series. It's four formations for informations each week, and then we link them all together.

So by the end it becomes this great, beautiful story this month. It's all about body gratitude. So the affirmations are about gratitude, foul bodies, and it's really amazing. So yeah. What I wanted to bring out is one thing that you're watching it. And I know that you said even those few minutes, you felt uplifted, citing these affirmations while doing exercise while your endorphins a high up in the sky, it creates this magical effect in your brain that you walk out feeling that you are on high emotions of positive energy.

There's nothing that can get you down. That's awesome. And I teach us every week. And the beautiful part is that I actually practice this. So besides my teaching, so I do this for myself every single day, even if it's five, 10 or 15 minutes, because I want, I want that positive energy. I want that feeling of feeling good because you make decisions better, your whole outlook on life, better.

Everything is just better when you feel good about yourself. So it's very empowering. So that's fitness. I am powerful beyond measure. Wow. Wow.  So it isn't about 50 minutes on my rowing machine, torturing myself and hating every second of it. That's not, you want to have fun. You want to have fun with your fitness.

Um, I'm a believer of that. That's cool. Wow. That's food for thought, for sure. And you know, when I, when I originally started to teach this. You know that, like I said, it could look weird from the outside, like affirmations I'm speaking affirmations. What, what, but when you do it, that it feels so empowering that you're like, you know what?

And you can just say like, Oh, heck, I'm just going to do this. This feels so good. Yeah. I would imagine. So, especially with you're with a group of people and you're all doing it together. The energy is cumulative and, and Contagious is the word. Sure is. That's very cool. Yeah. So can you tell us about your eight week body love recipe course.

Absolutely. So over pandemic, I said, I need to do something that I've always wanted to do right now, you know, and it was locked down in March and I just woke up every single day and I'm like, I am writing a course. I want people to learn how to love their bodies. And I just started writing and writing and writing and, you know, Before I knew it.

I had 150 pages and I'm like, this is just so amazing. I'm so excited. And I broke it down so people can find tangible ways and tools to come in from beginning to end and walk out with all the tools they need for self care, to love their bodies, to speak highly to themselves, to understand what diet culture is, how it is harming them and how they can get out of it.

And while it's. Amazing for someone who's in the throws of diet culture, or emotional eating. It's also amazing for someone who wants to learn if they're a mom and they want to bring up their teens in a great way, I'm just standing. You don't support that they should say. So this is anyone who wants to put in more positive vibes about body love it's interactive.

So I get on a zoom call with them every single week for those eight weeks as I give them self work to do things for them to think about. And we come back and share. And it's easy education and tangible bites that they can use directly that day. And that's the way I wanted it to be. You know, that something that they can use, I feel like body love is such a floaty word.

You know, like what is body love? Exactly. And I wanted, I wanted to give people something that they can take home. And, um, that's, that's my eight week course. And the nice part is that it's always moving. So anyone can join at any time. So it's, it's asynchronous. You can do it as you please come in and, there'll be people coming in and people coming out and it's, it flows really, really nice.

And so all of this is what accessed through your website, sorry, John in New York city NYC. Yeah, my Instagram any, well I'm so reachable. Sorry, but they could look on my website. Absolutely. Okay, awesome. I'm going to link all of this and so on into the show notes underneath. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm currently writing my book, so I hope we'll have another podcast.

Well, my look is incompletion. Oh, absolutely. I saw pictures on your Instagram of you sitting on the beach and you were writing. And I was like,

me too. I told my husband that I go, Eddie, I need to go away for a month. I'm not saying this is happening because in my dreams, write my book because it is the most. A special, magical place to write when you're by the sea and shore beach in the warmth, something about it opens up your soul. So yeah, I'm excited about that.

Yeah, for me, it's the beach. I don't even care what season it is. I actually prefer it when there aren't people around. So I go to like sunken meadow beach here. I mean, not in the snow, but even in the winter, all bundled up. And I just look at the water. I walk the boardwalk and it's just so Zen, when there's no one else there found your emotional eating outlet.

Yes. I'll go to the beach. Yeah. It's pretty amazing. You know, I've discovered that headphones work really well as ear muffs. So if I put headphones on and I listened to a podcast or an audio book or something, and then I'm entertained and I'm looking at the water and there's no one else there to get in the way of my mojo, I'm quite happy about that.

I'm going to, it sounds good to me, not so bad. And I live like two miles from the beach here. So there really is not a single excuse in the world. Definitely not. Yeah. You know, like I had been aware of a lot of this from my own life prior to being a mom. And I thought that I was being mindful of the things that I said about myself or how I looked in clothes or whatever.

 I thought that I was being mindful enough where I wasn't passing along any negativity about my body to my daughter, but it turns out that I was wrong and that she unfortunately has the genetic predisposition towards anxiety that I have, and that my mom had, et cetera. And for her instead of. The emotional eating.

She can't eat when she's anxious. And so she goes through periods of time where she just can't eat that. It like her esophagus almost closes so that she can't quite get food down. And ,first I took her to a gastroenterologist to make sure there was nothing wrong. And we put her on an acid reducer because she wasn't eating enough and that was making it worse.

Was this cyclic cyclical thing.  But now she's working with professionals to help her figure out. When to eat and what to eat and ha and she has it on a calendar. And so she's going to the gym six days a week, and that has, has completely changed her whole outlook. Like you said, about the physical and the mental and the anxiety is.

You know, 20% of what it used to be. And she's, she's doing really, really well, but you know, we have to be mindful about these things and what we say about our bodies in front of our daughters. Even if we don't think they are hearing, they are, Oh, they are hearing, they are hearing the little words, the little stuff.

It makes a huge impact. Yeah.  Well, even gestures, you know, if you have a pinch your stomach, like, Oh, I got to get rid of this or things. Things like that little gestures, I think we have to really be very neutral right now because we've been so much the other way. So it's time to just like reel it back in.

And I remember when I was first doing this, I started to say, Oh, wow. I look so good. And. Like people weren't used to hearing that, you know, my kids weren't used to hearing that I'm like, Oh wow, your mama rocks. You know? And, and now it's like, they kind of used to it. Like, if I think I look good, I say it.

And they got used to it. And it's a nice, I'm happy that they can hear this. I want them to know that they can feel good about themselves, that they can use language that's positive about themselves because easily they would tell their best friend, Oh, you look great. Oh my God. Yeah. I've realized that about myself.

Like some of the things that I would saying in, in my internal dialogue, I would never say it out loud to myself, but. Inside my head, I would say all sorts of hateful, disgusting things that in a thousand years, even if you put a gun to my head, I would never say to another person. And then I was like, I don't know who I was listening to, but why should my talk to myself be any less kind than what I would say to other people?

And who do I love more than Haman to existence this whole conversation, right. That really bothers me. Like when does he even begin from, and that's the whole diet culture conversation, right? You should not, we shouldn't even have to have a podcast about this. Right? What is it like a hundred billion dollar industry or something, some crazy thing growing.

But not safe. There is good movement out. There is amazing people, more than ever bringing out positive messages, teaching people about a healthy food of body relationship. And I'm really pleased that I, I really feel good that in the next 10 years, it's going to be a huge shift. Yeah, I think you're right.

I do see it. I do see it. I'm really, really excited about that. The model Ashley Graham, I look at her Instagram and she just had a baby and she looks amazing and she's curvy and by vicious and like an Amazon queen, she's gorgeous. And I'm like, you know, I'm older than her. So if we count for age, My body's just like hers and I think she's rocking sexy, hot.

Oh my God. So I'm like, why inner confidence? Why can't I, you know, but you know, the interesting thing is I haven't really sort of know how to explain this because I'll look at myself in the mirror with, or without makeup. Pandemic has gotten me used to not wearing any. And I'm fine. I'm just wearing lipstick now.

There's nothing else there. And. If I get dressed I buy clothes that I feel good in and when I'm dressed, I feel great. I look at myself in the mirror and I feel fabulous. And I'm like, why?

I don't know how to explain it. I never. Although, I might say that I'm not thrilled with the way my body's aging or that there were more curves than I would have quote wanted. I never attached that to my self worth. It was different. Yeah, I might want her to have had the flat stomach I used to have, and I might have wanted X, Y, and Z to look like it did 15, 20 years ago, but it never, it never metastasized and, and took away from my value or self worth or self-efficacy or took away from the gifts.

I know I have that. I want to share, which I guess is brilliant and fabulous, but I, I feel. Like we are specifically addressing the people for whom it has no, that their value has nothing to do with their waist size or the size jeans they fit into or don't fit into, or, you know, yeah. It has nothing to do with any of that.

They're beautiful and worthy and fabulous, regardless of that. Absolutely. Absolutely. I know it can really affect someone. I wanted to go to parties, people in my coaching groups that share that with me, they don't want to go out. You have to lose 20 pounds before my daughter's wedding. You know, like what the hell is that let's go.

But when we attached too much of it, we put too much pressure on ourselves. Right? And I think at that point we sought searching, , what can I do quick? What's the quick fix. When we could let ourselves, , chill a little bit more and understand that bodies are bodies. And that's something I love about Ashley Graham, because the first time we ever so cellulite, everyone has cellulite.

Do you know what I mean? I mean, mostly as it's normal, but you know, we grew up that wasn't normal, everything was airbrush and Photoshop and it still is, but there's the few. And in between models that we need to look more at and to see normal when the normal body looks like. And I think that is more powerful than anything.

So even the models themselves don't look, I like that they do that. They do not. Yeah, I know it's crazy. We've all been sold a bill of goods here. You know, we should be pissed, mad. Isn't the word? Angry, angry. But right now I settled a bit because now I feel like I'm actually doing something. Yes, you are definitely doing something about it.

Yeah. I'm feeling I'm doing something about it. But when I first learned this. Angry. And I wrote that in my book, how I was so upset. I'm like I was sold a bill of lies. And right now I'm in the space that I'm only looking at models like Ashley Graham and people like her. But I do know that there's a whole nother world out there that is saying just the opposite and messages of just the opposite.

And it's really challenging to take your eye off of like how wrong that is. But little by little step by step. Every conversation we have about it, it's healing. And that's why it's permission to heal. We are healing. Absolutely. We have to give ourselves permission to love our bodies and feel comfortable in them to respect them for the things that they allow us to do and feel and be, and, and even how you said, how this, how you were sharing about, beginning with diets and almost practicing bulemia So that, and that even leads into cosmetic surgery and dangerous, expensive surgery.

Yeah. Funny parts, the putts and stomach and tummy tucks. And I hold no judgment for anyone who decides that that's what they would like to do 100%. But just the idea that, that is, that is a practice that we do just fact alone is enough to say we. What's up here. Why are women doing that? I mean, I have a friend of mine who I teach with who.

Was born with a relatively flat chest. She has very small breasts. She's a petite woman, that wasn't what she wanted. So she went and she had breast implants and they were the saline kind. They weren't, silicone or whatever, but so she had the man, she loved the way they looked and very slowly, her entire physical and mental health.

Shifted. And she became anxious and she became critical and she became so different mentally that it killed her marriage and she wound up getting divorced. Goodness. She just started to see things completely differently. Her body developed an autoimmune disorder and she had inflammation and she gained all this weight and there wasn't anything she could do about it because.

And she was going from doctor to doctor, to doctor, trying to figure out what was going on. And nobody could figure out what was going on. And they were all telling her it was in her head and it was all psychosomatic and she was crazy and there was nothing wrong with her. And I'm not sure what the last piece of the puzzle was that showed her that it was her breast implants.

I don't remember that little piece of the story, how powerful, but she took the breast implants out and within a month. Sorry. Everything started to go back to normal. She lost the weight, it just fell off of her. The inflammation went down. Her head was clear for the first time. She didn't realize how mentally foggy she was, how she was having difficulty being logical and, um, Everything changed.

And she started to repair her relationship with her ex-husband and with her friends and with herself. And I'm trying to get her on this podcast to talk about this story, but she's a little shy about telling the whole thing, but, but it was

absolutely. Yeah. You'll connect us. I will. I mean, she's just, she's amazing. And the way she tells the story and she's, she, I actually hooked her up with the dietician that I was seeing and she fixed the rest of the components of that food through the character, the dietician.  But she's on this story.

She's,  it lit it negatively affected every single system in her entire body. Just having these boob implants in and the, almost the minute she got rid of them, it was like leaching toxicity into her. Into her whole endocrine system or something. And that affects everything thing. And even the fact that women are thinking about it, I was looking at a statistic that said 60% of women are thinking about it.

Like it's in our consciousness. It's something that like, what if I did this? What if I could do that? And it seems so appealing and accessible right now. There's plastic surgeons. Everywhere. And it seems like everybody's doing it. So you kind of get sucked into it. I have my own story that one of my friends was like, Oh Sarah, you got to go fix your boobs.

No, you can't. You got to go fix this. This was a browser for 10 years ago. And I remember going to the doctor's office with her. She took me and I felt like an object. I, it didn't feel right to me. Didn't sit right again. No judgment to anyone who decided wasn't right for you. It feel right. And I'm looking back and I'm like, I am so glad I made that decision, but I like you're saying, um, so many people.

Even though it doesn't feel right. They do it anyway because the look is just so important. So again, it goes back to calming down on what's the physical outlook of us and holding back into our spirituality, to our insights, our mental health, our emotional health, and always, we would love to show the world's,  a physically beautiful essence.

If we feel that beautiful essence from the inside, right. Never be shown strictly from the outside. Right. If we're not at peace with ourselves inside, no matter how much we work on the outside, it's never gonna, here we go. We want you getting back into our exercise for joyful movement, for feeling good for helping our emotions, tapping into intuitive eating.

It's a beautiful, healthy lifestyle. As we continue this process, taking out the negativity, putting in more positive outlook on ourselves. Listen, our world is. We go through our worlds without a body and we eating every single day. So it's two things now have to, we need to get back and check with. Totally makes sense to me.

Yeah. This is huge. This is, this is everything, you know, there are some times in my life where I guess I get so. Focused on things that I'm doing, like task oriented. Like when I was writing my book, I was so in my own head that I felt like my body was like a. A car in a way that it was just the vehicle through which my brain interacts with the world.

I was completely separated from my body and it's totally not healthy to be that way. I understand that because when you're, when you're the type of person who wants to get things done and something to accomplish, Right. Why was writing my book? And like, sometimes I would sit down to write for an hour and I would be there for nine hours thinking my husband had gone to sleep.

My daughter had gone to sleep and I realized, Oh my God, it's like four in the morning. I've been up all night writing. And it's just like, it's blowing out of me. So in your zone, Oh, in my zone, I mean, I wrote 125,000 words in six weeks. Okay. You're egging me on my first chapter. So you making me really happy.

Well, I mean, that was just the first draft. I then had the painstaking. I had to go through my editor and then the painstaking second draft, which was more torturous to write than the first, because I had to dig deeper and you know, it was a memoir. So it, it was literally the title of your book. It's called permission to land, searching for love home.

Oh, I love it. Can you give me a little bit about it? Sure. This is your podcast, but sure. It's  I was a, here's a picture of it talking about realizing on a podcast. It's fun. And, so anyway, so it's, uh, it's a memoir of my life story.  I was an emotionally abused child and I didn't know that I was, cause it was just all that I knew.

My mom was an undiagnosed bipolar with, a narcissistic tendency and later a drug addict. She was addicted to opiates and, my relationship with her taught me to not trust myself. And to be a people pleaser, because I always wanted to make her happy because when she was in Mary Poppins mode, I had a happier life.

And when she turned into Corella Deville, which is the opposite side of what I called her, bipolarity my life sucked. And my dad worked like 99 jobs to try to keep us to keep a roof over our heads. And my mom. No. She was like the center of my life. And even from a very young age, I felt like I was the only adult to parenting me because she was just so difficult to manage.

And, I, it completely affected all of the choices. I made my relationships with my friends, my relationships with my coworkers and my bosses and my relationships with men. And it wasn't until after. It wasn't until January of 2011, when my kids and I were dealing with her in her most belligerent state, that I finally just said enough, and I caught her out of my life and I cut her out of my kid's life.

And the moment that I stopped being the dutiful daughter, I became the mother that I needed to be. And it was that moment that. I began the story. And 18 months later, she died of drug that drug the, the effects of drug addiction. And so what I did was I went back through 35 years of my journals and I use them as primary source documents and basically raced this.

Mental illness of mine, this people pleasing anxiety thing. I traced its roots from my childhood all the way forward through my life to figure out how this happened, the way it happened and how do I undo it. And, and so that's the story. And I figured out how to heal myself and give myself permission to be the mom that I needed to be, and to be the Marcy I needed to be.

And that I didn't have to ask anyone's permission to go do anything. I felt like freaking doing on this God's green earth. And, and I wound up finding love within myself and finding a wonderful partner in my husband, Michael and my kids had to raise them to be happier. And it was so I'm sharing my whole entire story.

Good, bad. And the ugly.  To try to give other people hope that if their lives were screwed up as mine or worse, they have the power to fix it.  And because journal writing was such a big part of this. I wrote a companion journal called print, personal transformation through writing where I, I literally went through all of the questions that I asked myself.

In over a hundred pages of guided writing prompts so that another person could recreate this analysis this long look back as I put it for themselves. So that's where this whole permission to heal thing was born. Because while I was trying to build a community support my book, I started a Facebook group called permission to heal, safe, to fly.

And then I was trying to figure out, well, this isn't exactly what I wanted to do yet. We were talking about this before. I was trying to figure out what this is. This podcast thing is because I couldn't figure out how to do the rest of this. And then. Permission to heal was born. So it seemed really haphazard.

And like, I had no idea what the hell I was doing, but looking back, all the pieces were being put into place along the way, the way they had to. And so now here we are, and it's February 21 and, uh, and I'm making it happen. So congratulations. Thanks. Really. Wow. That was a very powerful story. You just like, I was just like glued into you.

It was a lean in moment as Chris and Jen would say, yeah, you just drew me in with that. Well, I'm excited to read a thank you for writing it. Sure. Thank you. I just, I needed to say it, you know, it was a very cathartic process for me. And I figured out a whole lot of stuff along the way I thought I had figured out, but I figured really figured it out and healed my relationship with my dad, which I think is pretty amazing because he's 81.

And you know that saying you can't teach an old dog new tricks. That's not true. They have to be willing to learn the new tricks while you were writing. Did you feel. Like, Oh, I'm going to be so judged on this or you just like let it out. And yeah, I didn't really care. I knew people would be like, how could you say that?

You know, like, cause I mean, I'm literally naked in this book, metaphor, metaphorically for the books that people want to read because people see themselves in it because. No, we'll have, I mean, I talk about all the failed relationships. I had all the boyfriends I went through as a young person and as a mid forties person after my divorce.

And I mean, you'll learn about when I lost my virginity, you know, like everything is in this book, books, everything is in this book. I can't wait to read it. Yeah, I was just like, you have to let me know how you, how you like it. I mean, so far I've gotten great reviews and, um, and I've been sharing pieces of it all over the place.

So, I dunno, it was cathartic for me and it healed my relationship with my dad because we were able to open up conversations about things that I had been carrying around since the eighties that he didn't know I was carrying around and we talked in ways that we hadn't talked in, uh, ever. Really, , and that was not easy conversations.

We were both crying and there was a couple of weeks of silence between us as we sort of processed what we had said. And, and, and there were things that, that I just have to let go because they can't be undone and he's apologized and I've apologized. And, we have to just let it go and move forward.

But in so many ways, I feel like the adult 50 something year old Marcy has gone back and comfort, hugged the younger Marcy to make her feel better and tell her that it doesn't, it isn't always as bad as it was and that it will get better and it does get better. And that she is the one who's going to make it better, how it felt so powerful.

Yeah, thanks.

I don't think any of us are so good at taking compliments, you know? Like what do you say? I know, I know, but just the way you, the way you stories for it out. I know when I was writing my course, I had that feeling of like letting things come out, like, cause with my course, it was always a personal story involved.

There's something about writing it and getting it out. You're almost doing it for yourself. And then you're like, Oh yeah. Oh yes. It's great for other people too. But there's, there's something about it, getting it out on paper. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I make connections along the way with them. With pop culture, with movies and music and, and books that I've read and what characters in things that have inspired me, that that changed my outlook on stuff.

And I mean, I'm an English teacher, so of course this stuff's going to be connected. Um, but it was, it was cathartic and liberating and. And I, I, I'm not squeamish about the fact that people on four continents now know very intimate details about me. You know, it is what it is, what it is. It humanizes us.

We're all human. And we go through adversity. And stuff and we learn and we grow, we share, and then we teach somebody else so they could be protected and this knowing. And if I had to go through all of that crap and, and, and cry those gallons of tears, if I can shorten someone else's anguish, I don't know, shorten someone else's healing journey and get them through to the light a little faster with a few fewer tears.

 Then it's all worth it to me. Absolutely. So in the beginning of the interviews, I normally do the six quick questions, but you and I just got into it so quickly and I completely forgot about them. So we're going to do them now. Okay. So what five words would you use to describe yourself? Oh, wow. Fun.

Energetic. Oh God. Yes. Passionate. Loving, of course purposeful, definitely caring. Wow. Yeah. I probably don't take the same words for you that I do six. I, I don't know. I think five, whatever, supposed to be five, whatever. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. We can do what we want. It's my podcast. I don't have to ask anyone else's permission.

 What's your favorite way to spend a day? Oh, at home in front of the fireplace writing journaling. Self-care hot bath. Hmm.

What's your favorite childhood memory? Oh, wow. Hm, childhood memory that goes back. Now

I'm going to think about this one. Okay. Hmm.

It's a hard one for me too.

You know, childhood is just such a funny thing as, as a very introspective type of person. I think we all grow up to be that way. We look back and we're like, Oh, what could we have done better? What could we have changed? How could we have fixed? But I have to say that times spent. In a relaxed way, not really going anywhere crazy or doing anything, sitting with family in a chilled environment around the den.

I both sitting and watching the Olympics with my dad. That was always a very fond memory. I looked back at that time or him watering the garden. I'm talking about like the little stuff, little stuff like that. Remember the day when we still like, you know, hose the garden. My dad had automatic sprinklers.

Of course you had to go out there by hand and it was like my favorite time to be with him. So I'm going to choose that. I think for me, I think my favorite thing has always been holiday dinners with the extended family, whether it's Passover or Thanksgiving. Passover's my favorite. Thanksgiving's my second favorite.

 I just love. People sitting around and eating and chatting and talking about all sorts of stuff and the ritual of a Passover Seder. I find so grounding and so connective and I almost like feel thousands of years of Jews reaching forward in time, you know, dancing the whole at weddings, I get the same feeling, you know, like.

Just the connectivity through tradition to me is everything. I love it. I love that. I guess sometimes I feel like I do that so much in row that I'm not appreciating it enough. So the way you said that it was like, yeah, Passover is coming and yeah, quick note because I know we can't stop talking, but.  The last pre we had was the last day our family was together in its higher tea house and it was March 13th.

And then pandemic hit. Sure. All like looking forward, hopefully. Let's see for this Purim coming up soon and let's see what it gets too soon to saying that year to year, you know, but as you're saying that it's bringing me alive thinking about that. Yeah. Yeah. We did Passover Seder via zoom last year, and I think we're going to wind up doing it again that way too.

Okay. We'll do it. Where is it? It's actually fine. You know, we didn't have any traveling. Nobody was sitting in traffic or big cleanup, no big cleanup. Cause I was only feeding the five, four or five people in my house. I wasn't feeding 25 people. You know, we could make a few, lots of balls. We didn't need five dozen, you know, like, okay.

Positive. Hunter's a little more doable. You know, I made a small brisket, not a huge one, you know? Yeah. So it goes, speaking of brisket, what's your favorite meal? Oh, I love so much. I love yogurt and granola and berries. I love that. Oh, right now I eat so many different types of foods. So I can today I made the funniest meal.

I made tuna fish with granola, cranberries and almonds. Why is that funny? I thought it was the funniest thing, cause I wanted to my fridge and I'm like, Oh, I see tuned already made from yesterday. And then I went in and I made this whole concoction. Like this is really great. So I don't know. I might substitute out, red grapes for the cranberries.

Good idea. Okay. Great. I've had this insatiable craving lately for red grapes. I can't seem to get enough of them, the sugar and the moisture. I think I'm slightly dehydrated. I just love them. I buy them, buy them constantly. , okay. What one piece of advice would you give your younger self? I think I could put it.

Oh, younger self. I would just say, go for it. Believe in yourself. Don't stop. Keep going. Believe in your superpowers. Believe in yourself. That's exactly what I would say. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. What is one thing you would most like to change about the world? Oh, pretty much love. I want to see the world loving each other again.

I think it's very sad. We're not in a loving world and I missed the one. I want the world to love each other. I want to be a piece. I feel like someone in college, you know, giving their graduation speech, but really that, that love and peaceful all people to bond to divisive right now, it hurts. It hurts.

It's sad. I want the world to love each other. That's really what I want. Sounds good to me. Sorry for precedent. I actually wouldn't wish that job on anybody. No, it's definitely not something I would ever want, but I, at the same time, think that the person who doesn't want the job as the person who should have the job, probably you're not going to be working your whole time to keep the job.

You're just going to be doing it. Doing it. Yeah. Anyway, that being said, I'm so pleased, so thrilled that you were here. This was such a wonderful conversation. I'd been looking forward to this for weeks and, it actually was better than I imagined it, so, and I have a good imagination. You're awesome.

Thank you so much to have me on. I, I, I. Do are you all right? You to your energy is so wonderful. Yeah, we could just sit here forever and I can't wait for our, I don't know. We spoke about this before the podcast, you know, in-house meeting. Yeah. The post pandemic. When we can see each other in 3d, we'll get aura Martinez and we'll hang out.

Exactly. Excellent. Thank you so much for being here. This has been such a wonderful episode. I really appreciate you very much. Thank you, Marcy.